“Yes WE Can! Yes we Will!”

Level 8

Since: Jul 07

Baltimore, Md.

#2478 Feb 2, 2013
Barros Serrano wrote:
<quoted text>
I believe when he began to move into areas beyond the civil rights movement per se, "they" decided he had to be killed.
The more history I read the more I see how old this struggle is. Today's corporations are just an evolved form of the feudal manor. The lies, brutality and perfidy committed by those in power to maintain their wealth and power...
King successfully broke through all that BS with his tactics and rhetoric. Yes it is possible. I do not see it happening now, however, dammit.
Take a look at FROM CIVIL RIGHTS TO HUMAN RIGHTS:MARTIN LUTHER KING, JR AND THE STRUGGLE FOR ECONOMIC JUSTICE, by Thomas F. Jackson.
As for today, I think my colleague and friend Cornel West is right: The Era of Reagan is over.
Even Mitch McConnell, after Obama's second inauguration address, mournfully noted that "the era of liberalism has returned."
If I have my way, it will be far more revolutionary than mere liberalism.

“Yes WE Can! Yes we Will!”

Level 8

Since: Jul 07

Baltimore, Md.

#2479 Feb 2, 2013
Sadbuttrue wrote:
<quoted text>Why Do Some Black Men Hate Black Women?
Jan 26th, in Guests Of The Inner Sanctum, What The Cuss?, by "LorMarie"
If you were at the bottom of the totem pole among men, would you feel the need to pick on someone else in order to feel better about yourself?
Author : "LorMarie"
If you were at the bottom of the totem pole among men, would you feel the need to pick on someone else in order to feel better about yourself? Anyone possessing a basic respect for human beings would not. Those lacking that very basic respect are bullies. Such brutes thrive on taking power from people they feel are weaker? I believe that to be at the core of why some black men hate black women. It has nothing to do with black women’s supposed attitude but black men’s lack of power in America and the world as a whole. Now there are a few that understand the ways of the world and handle it in a strategic manner but I suspect that many cannot. Don’t believe me? Just look at the tons of videos they make attacking black women. I won’t bother naming or linking to them since I don’t want to send traffic their way.
I’ve explored videos and forums where damaged black men referred to us as apes and posted pictures dehumanizing us. Isn’t that similar to what the Nazis and the KKK did and continue to do today? You bet! Couple that with their vast “eagerness” to pair with non-black women and you get a symptom of a much larger problem. Nothing wrong with marrying non-black women but one should do some research about whether or not these unions stand the test of time. That could tell us a lot about the true motives behind most of their relationships. A black man’s self-hate is what causes him to lash out at black women. I’ve heard over and over again that he who hates himself will transfer that hate to others. I’m seeing that played out on a daily basis among damaged black men against black women.
For example, DBR’s blame every failure of the black man on black women. The most idiotic example I can recall was a black man claiming “the reason why Africa was taken over was because black women took control of the villages.” Now just think about that for a second. Now ask yourself how any group is able to dominate another group’s village or territory. What does that say about black men if black women gained control? Not only that but if we consider the disproportionate incarceration rate of black men, it’s because they were raised by a black mother. To damaged black men, black women just can’t win.
Finally, they are double-minded when it comes to how black women are perceived. To illustrate my point, let me fill you in on the “tone” of various men’s right’s forums I used to frequent. It was not unusual for a black MRA to try so hard to get into the white MRA’s “good graces” that it borderlined on the homoerotic front. One even asked point blank if these men were more offended by black women or black men? Needless to say, he got zero responses. Methinks they thought he was weird as he ended up in an internet shouting match with one of the white MRA’s in the same thread.
On the other hand, they will claim that black women are treated better or experience less racial discrimination than black men. So which is it? White people love black men more than black women or do they love black women more. Most sane individuals wouldn’t even be concerned about being loved by the white race but damaged black men apparently do.
So remember the next time you hear a black criticize black women, ask “who the hell are you to criticize anyone” and make sure you laugh at them.
Run from Black men Black women less then continue to destroy you!
Sorry, SBT. But you're in the wrong thread.. Perhaps you should go to the beginning of this thread to see what it's about. This is about NONVIOLENT REVOLUTION, the Struggle for social justice, King's legacy, etc.

Level 8

Since: May 08

Pacific Northwest

#2480 Feb 2, 2013
Savant wrote:
<quoted text>
Perhaps we're entering a new historical cycle of progressivism. A famous American historian whose name escapes me, wrote that there are cycles of reform and progressive struggles for change, and also cycles of conservatism and push back against the progressive changes and legacies. I think he said the cycles last about 20--30 years. Barros has mentioned this a few times, but I can recall the historian famous for proposing that thesis.

Well if the thesis is correct, if we're entering a new progressive era---the reelection of Barack Obama (his shortcomings notwithstanding), and the electoral rout of right wing Republicans possibly being an indication of a cyclical shift--then we may see the legacy of King and other progressives becoming prominent and even hegemonic again.

Perhaps the Occupy Movement and militant labor activism are simply a foreshadowing of things to come.......
I can only hope so, Brother. Color me as "guardedly optimistic."

The effective demise of hard-right Republicanism is not a done deal yet, but we know this: the longterm demographic trends of this country are blowing strong winds in the sails of the Democratic Party.

Republicans are desperately struggling to figure out *how* they can avoid a repeat of losing 73% of the Latino-American vote in the next presidential election. LOL They are struggling to come to terms with the reality that even when people of color ARE pro-family, highly-educated, hard-working and high-income (Asian-Americans) they will not automatically default to conservatives' "government-is-the-proble m" ideology and are unwilling to thirstily slurp from the pitcher of Kool-Aid that right-wing Republicans are serving up to their base.

Brother Savant, I think we have a great opportunity to re-invigorate progressivism in this country. As always, however, the devil lies in the details.
the boundaries of space

Atlanta, GA

#2481 Feb 10, 2013
Decades ago in the wake of the MLK assassination, it would have been beneficial to pay more attention to the subsequent speech of RFK rather than the heed the plan of Carmichael. RFK would have helped preserve your well-being while Carmichael indirectly got many of you killed.

It ain't even really a matter of who's wrong and who's right - it is simply a matter of numbers. Like today, black males were only seven percent versus the rest at 93 - simply not enough to successfully achieve their end on the grand scale.

“Yes WE Can! Yes we Will!”

Level 8

Since: Jul 07

Baltimore, Md.

#2482 Feb 10, 2013
The nonviolent revolution that Dr. King had in mind would have aimed at a "revolution of values" and a "radical redistribution of economic and political power." Those are King's own words.
But however essential the role of Blacks would continue to be, it would not be a movement only of Black people (and certainly not only of Black men) Do some research on the planned Poor Peoples Campaign and you will see that Dr. King intended this revolutionary movement to be a MULTIRACIAL movement of America's dispossessed and disinherited, and in unity with progressive allies from more affluent parts of society.
What Dr. King had in mind makes the tinkering reforms of Obama look downright paltry,
Now if Robert F. Kennedy had lived and won the election we might have been saved from 30 years of barbaric conservatism, The Struggle might then have proceeded in a more favorable milieu.
But that was not to be. But we may well being entering a new historic cycle of progressive reform and struggle. There is still hope for the future
Barros Serrano

Reserve, NM

#2483 Feb 10, 2013
Savant wrote:
<quoted text>
Perhaps we're entering a new historical cycle of progressivism. A famous American historian whose name escapes me, wrote that there are cycles of reform and progressive struggles for change, and also cycles of conservatism and push back against the progressive changes and legacies. I think he said the cycles last about 20--30 years. Barros has mentioned this a few times, but I can recall the historian famous for proposing that thesis.
Well if the thesis is correct, if we're entering a new progressive era---the reelection of Barack Obama (his shortcomings notwithstanding), and the electoral rout of right wing Republicans possibly being an indication of a cyclical shift--then we may see the legacy of King and other progressives becoming prominent and even hegemonic again.
Perhaps the Occupy Movement and militant labor activism are simply a foreshadowing of things to come.
The Montgomery Bus Boycott of 1955 is said to have precipitated the Black Movement of the 1960s, and other progressive movement which followed on the heels of our movement.(An elder white progresive and Sartre scholar informed me back in the 1990s that he and Mario Savio were working with the Black movment in Deep South before Mr. Savio later led the Berkeley Free Speech movement).
That possibility is why I queried Barros: "What makes you think the Arab Spring is over?" Both he and Attai (who otherwise detest each other, LOL!)seem at times to show a certain pessimism about the Arab Spring because of the stubborn persistence of militant Islamicism.
But look at Egypt: the Muslim Brotherhood CAN'T GOVERN largely because there's too much POPULAR RESISTANCE.
And isn't it interesting that the Arab Spring in Egypt and Wisconsin labor revolt--followed quickly by OCCUPY--happened very close in time.(Some members of the Egyptian Spring addressed folk at New Yourk Occupy gathering. In Bmore, PROGRESSIVE Jews and Muslims marched in our Occupy demos. The HOmeless marched with university students, professors, attorneys, union workers, Black civl rights activists,white youth, Hispanics,straights, gays, men, women, etc). I KNOW because I was THERE, and addressed the gathering myself on one occasin.
Cornel West is right: The Age of Reagain is OVER! Never despair. We'r moving again, albeit slowly at first. The spirit of King lives
Not on in Black America, but throughout America. Not only in America, but the world. Freedom will rise like the dawn.
As I observe what is happening in Egypt, I think you may be right... there may indeed be a democratic tide rising which will not tolerate the MB theocracy any more than it would tolerate Mubarak. If this is the case, I am sure happy to have been wrong about the Arab Spring in Egypt! Oh please let me be wrong about it in every Arab country, if the people will indeed rise up for democracy and freedom!

Maybe it can happen here as well... Certainly many share our progressive desires for positive change in the USA.

AA's must realize that the culture-nationalism of groups like the NOI have been an impediment to change. Go to Youtube and listen to some of the interviews and statements made by Bobby Seale (Chairman of the original Black Panther Party). We need to get back to that way of thinking... militant pro-black activism which is however not RACIST even against whites.

I'm prepared to have solidarity with EVERYONE and ANYONE advocating and active for such change, yes, even Muslims.
Barros Serrano

Reserve, NM

#2484 Feb 10, 2013
Once during the anti-apartheid movement on the UCLA campus, in the 1980's, I was good friends with 2 women... one a Palestinian leftist, and the other a very liberal but very orthodox Israeli Jew. Once I saw them both in the same place, and went up and introduced them to each other. I stated, to avoid any confusion, that A was Palestinian, and B was Israeli. Then as they looked at each other with some nervousness, I asked, could you both agree that it would be preferable if Jews and Arabs could live in peace, go to the market, say good morning, how's your family, fine, that's nice, very good, see you later neighbor.

They both without hesitation nodded affirmatively. Oh yes, that's what I want, they both said.

See, there's hope. That one brief incident I'll never forget and I hang onto it because it showed me that there is hope. And both of those women were very militant for their side, not sellouts at all.

There is hope!

“Yes WE Can! Yes we Will!”

Level 8

Since: Jul 07

Baltimore, Md.

#2485 Feb 11, 2013
Harrisson wrote:
<quoted text>
I can only hope so, Brother. Color me as "guardedly optimistic."
The effective demise of hard-right Republicanism is not a done deal yet, but we know this: the longterm demographic trends of this country are blowing strong winds in the sails of the Democratic Party.
Republicans are desperately struggling to figure out *how* they can avoid a repeat of losing 73% of the Latino-American vote in the next presidential election. LOL They are struggling to come to terms with the reality that even when people of color ARE pro-family, highly-educated, hard-working and high-income (Asian-Americans) they will not automatically default to conservatives' "government-is-the-proble m" ideology and are unwilling to thirstily slurp from the pitcher of Kool-Aid that right-wing Republicans are serving up to their base.
Brother Savant, I think we have a great opportunity to re-invigorate progressivism in this country. As always, however, the devil lies in the details.
You are guardedly optimistic, which is fine. Some say that I am TOO optimistic. It's hard to know where to find a wise balance. I'm reminded of comments made by Jean-Paul Sartre to the effect that while everything is not possible, it's only in and through the STRUGGLE that we find out what's possible. What I defintely DO think (at minimum) to be possible TODAY was well stated by Dr. King in his Nobel Peace Prize acceptance speech:

"I accept this award with an abiding faith in America and an adacious faith in the future of mankind....I have the audacity to believe that peoples everywhere can have three meals a day for their bodies, education and culture for their minds, and dignity, equality and freedom for their spirits. I believe that what self-centered men have torn down, other centered men can build up....I still beieve that we shall overcome. This faith can give us the courage to face the uncertainties of the future. It will give our tired feet new strength as we continue our forward stride toward the City of Freedom." (THE AUTOBIOGRAPHY OF MARTIN LUTHER KING, JR., p. 260)
Barros Serrano

Reserve, NM

#2486 Feb 11, 2013
Savant wrote:
<quoted text>
You are guardedly optimistic, which is fine. Some say that I am TOO optimistic. It's hard to know where to find a wise balance. I'm reminded of comments made by Jean-Paul Sartre to the effect that while everything is not possible, it's only in and through the STRUGGLE that we find out what's possible. What I defintely DO think (at minimum) to be possible TODAY was well stated by Dr. King in his Nobel Peace Prize acceptance speech:
"I accept this award with an abiding faith in America and an adacious faith in the future of mankind....I have the audacity to believe that peoples everywhere can have three meals a day for their bodies, education and culture for their minds, and dignity, equality and freedom for their spirits. I believe that what self-centered men have torn down, other centered men can build up....I still beieve that we shall overcome. This faith can give us the courage to face the uncertainties of the future. It will give our tired feet new strength as we continue our forward stride toward the City of Freedom." (THE AUTOBIOGRAPHY OF MARTIN LUTHER KING, JR., p. 260)
I have to analyze this realistically, and it doesn't come up looking very good...

1960's... we had TWO strong currents of resistance---civil rights and antiwar---and we have nothing like that today. There is no issue even that unites black people let alone the general populace.

We had back then a strong legacy of worker activism from the 1930's, which included politically-oriented music on TV and radio, a Press interested in reporting on new things... now we have 900 channels and nothing on, the public brainwashed with corporate media for decades to be apathetic and selfish, little public consciousness of solidarity with suffering people, and abject cynicism about nearly everything. Sometimes as well I even believe the rightwing conspiratorialists that something was put into the water to make people complacent.

My concern and question is: WHERE will the spark be ignited? Where is the Rosa Parks incident that will motivate resistance? And around what issue?

I know how economic transformation could and should be done... I'm very good at that analysis, having studied 3rd world agrarian development issues, Jefferson, anarchy, etc. A nation of smallholders... but we have a nation in debt to Visa and Mastercard, dependent on an abusive job and pushed to the limits of time and energy. College isn't easy any more, financially, and Unions compared to the 60's are weak.

And then we've got the endless manipulations of the right, though out of power, apparently, not silent nor willing to end their political obstructionism.

Think globally, act locally is a cliche on the left. I'm in fact doing that, but I in my hick town am not going to cause a revolution. HOW does this get motivated, how can the torpor be overcome?

“Yes WE Can! Yes we Will!”

Level 8

Since: Jul 07

Baltimore, Md.

#2487 Feb 11, 2013
Barros Serrano wrote:
<quoted text>
I have to analyze this realistically, and it doesn't come up looking very good...
1960's... we had TWO strong currents of resistance---civil rights and antiwar---and we have nothing like that today. There is no issue even that unites black people let alone the general populace.
We had back then a strong legacy of worker activism from the 1930's, which included politically-oriented music on TV and radio, a Press interested in reporting on new things... now we have 900 channels and nothing on, the public brainwashed with corporate media for decades to be apathetic and selfish, little public consciousness of solidarity with suffering people, and abject cynicism about nearly everything. Sometimes as well I even believe the rightwing conspiratorialists that something was put into the water to make people complacent.
My concern and question is: WHERE will the spark be ignited? Where is the Rosa Parks incident that will motivate resistance? And around what issue?
I know how economic transformation could and should be done... I'm very good at that analysis, having studied 3rd world agrarian development issues, Jefferson, anarchy, etc. A nation of smallholders... but we have a nation in debt to Visa and Mastercard, dependent on an abusive job and pushed to the limits of time and energy. College isn't easy any more, financially, and Unions compared to the 60's are weak.
And then we've got the endless manipulations of the right, though out of power, apparently, not silent nor willing to end their political obstructionism.
Think globally, act locally is a cliche on the left. I'm in fact doing that, but I in my hick town am not going to cause a revolution. HOW does this get motivated, how can the torpor be overcome?
An AA historian who had been a Morehouse student during the 1950s & 60s once said to me: "What do you think MOST Black students were doing throughout most of the 1950s?" I said "I don't know. It's a bit before my time. But I imagine they were preparing for the 1960s, that the seeds at least were there." To which the elder scholar said to me "Not exactly, Savant. Most Black students were partying and bullshytting during the 1950s--not much different than other students. In 1960 an Ivy League philosopher even described us as the "uncommitted generaton." Yet before the year 1960 had passed our sit-in had spread throughout the South. Nobody expected this of us, Savant. My God, were they surprised. And before they could catch their breath from the shock of our movement, the youth of White America itself rose in rebelllion. NO ONE expected it. You never know, Savant. You never know."
Dr. Benjamin Berry also told me that in the early 1960s, he the pleasure of taking a philosophy class from an illustrious Morehouse alumni who had preceded him.....Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. You never know.

“Yes WE Can! Yes we Will!”

Level 8

Since: Jul 07

Baltimore, Md.

#2488 Feb 11, 2013
Barros Serrano wrote:
<quoted text>
I have to analyze this realistically, and it doesn't come up looking very good...
1960's... we had TWO strong currents of resistance---civil rights and antiwar---and we have nothing like that today. There is no issue even that unites black people let alone the general populace.
We had back then a strong legacy of worker activism from the 1930's, which included politically-oriented music on TV and radio, a Press interested in reporting on new things... now we have 900 channels and nothing on, the public brainwashed with corporate media for decades to be apathetic and selfish, little public consciousness of solidarity with suffering people, and abject cynicism about nearly everything. Sometimes as well I even believe the rightwing conspiratorialists that something was put into the water to make people complacent.
My concern and question is: WHERE will the spark be ignited? Where is the Rosa Parks incident that will motivate resistance? And around what issue?
I know how economic transformation could and should be done... I'm very good at that analysis, having studied 3rd world agrarian development issues, Jefferson, anarchy, etc. A nation of smallholders... but we have a nation in debt to Visa and Mastercard, dependent on an abusive job and pushed to the limits of time and energy. College isn't easy any more, financially, and Unions compared to the 60's are weak.
And then we've got the endless manipulations of the right, though out of power, apparently, not silent nor willing to end their political obstructionism.
Think globally, act locally is a cliche on the left. I'm in fact doing that, but I in my hick town am not going to cause a revolution. HOW does this get motivated, how can the torpor be overcome?
A new movement today needs to focus on the issue of economic justice, economic democracy, and eventually the formation of a postcapitalist cooperative society.
Civil rights for women, minorities, immigrants, gays and others must be upheld. But the fight for economic justice may be the tie that binds.
We will have to review the labor insurgency in Wisconsin, the Occupy Movement, the Arab Spring (as well as previous Movements) to assess their strengths and weakness so as to move forward more effectively.
Barros Serrano

Reserve, NM

#2489 Feb 11, 2013
Savant wrote:
<quoted text>
A new movement today needs to focus on the issue of economic justice, economic democracy, and eventually the formation of a postcapitalist cooperative society.
Civil rights for women, minorities, immigrants, gays and others must be upheld. But the fight for economic justice may be the tie that binds.
We will have to review the labor insurgency in Wisconsin, the Occupy Movement, the Arab Spring (as well as previous Movements) to assess their strengths and weakness so as to move forward more effectively.
As was described for the students of the 50's... mindlessly partying until suddenly something happened to spark rebellion, among blacks and shortly thereafter among whites...

I immediately have to ask... WHY did this happen? Simply because of the inspiration of Dr. King's rhetoric? The one incident involving Rosa Parks?

What would it take for that to happen now?

I still notice that even during the apathetic early 60's, there was radical music on the radio (even Peter Paul & Mary who were popularizing revolutionary folk songs) and we had a President (JFK) talking about building a better world...

Was there, as the right accused, influence from the USSR enabling us to develop the struggle? I doubt this, but it's a possibility.

Was it the Beatles who kicked loose the mental obstructions among white youth and inspired them to rebellion? That was a considerable influence, with John Lennon even from the early days snidely pointing out that the establishment was full of crap...

I would suggest also it was the media... there was blatant injustice, in the form of racist Southern cops brutally trying to beat back the civil rights movement... while white parents sniffed and complained that those colored people didn't know their place, their children were seeing that and getting pissed off. In the mindless euphoria of 50's suburban bliss, I think the parents had neglected to adequately inculcate their children with the racism which was part of their thinking from an earlier time.

Vietnam... they hadn't attacked us, obviously the government was lying, plus there was a draft... Today's war has no draft and the rationale that on 9-11 we were attacked.

Economic injustice, you mention. That may be the key in today's USA. Seeing one's Union job shipped to a Chinese sweatshop... how much of this are Yanks willing to tolerate?

I raise questions but have no firm answers, sorry to say.
Barros Serrano

Reserve, NM

#2490 Feb 11, 2013
Perhaps the answer is to be found by observing where corporate power most carefully represses freedom today... because they know where the danger lies, the danger that the people will again rise up.

Mindless TV and music...

News controlled, obsessed with Britney's breakdowns interspersed with "terror threats", the media saturated with mindless rightwing brainwash droning...

Access to higher education restricted.

Economic squeezing... in the 60's one could afford to drop out, turn on and tune in, survive on little money, live for political action. Today the poor neighborhoods are dangerous and everything is expensive.

You (Savant) know better because, despite your generational ambience, you for some reason decided to find out... I know better because I was there in the 60's... how the hell do we reach all the people with no access to this consciouness?
Truthism

United States

#2491 Feb 15, 2013
Savant wrote:
<quoted text>
Shattering of the plutocracy, of the concentration of wealth and of political power based concentrated wealth, would free political and cultural life of the nation from its current shackles.
Philosophers as different as Aristotle, Rousseau, Hegel, Fanon, Paine and Jefferson (whatever their own shortcomings) notice that excessive concentration wealth leads to excessive concentration of power and the destruction of democracy or a republic. Such was notoriously the case in Rome. This concentration of wealth and pwoer can no longer be avoided under capitalism.
I favor a cooperative society and the creation of new forms of direct democracy to the fullest extent possible. I favor a movement for economic justice which can bind together Americans of all walks of life, but especially the poor, the working class and at least part of the middle classes. I agree with Dr. King that what's called for is a "radical redistribution of economic power." And developing new democratic forms of association to effectuate and govern such changes also aids in the renewal of community and the moral transformation of humankind.
Obviously, I am skimming the surface of ideas and vision which have greater depth than can be expressed in a single post. But maybe the ideas can gain greater clarity and expressiveness in the process of discussion.
Ultimately, it is a matter of a commitment to a "person-oriented society" as opposed to a "thing-oriented" society.
People say that such ideas are unrealistic or utopian, and certainly not new.
Yet they don't mind holding on to other old ideas--such as the naturalness and even desirability of war, elite domination of the masses, the notion that some people a inherently superior to others (even more humana), or that there must always be poverty or the division of humankind into rulers and rules.
Or that nonvilence is unrealistic.
But where has their "realism" led humanity?
No, I'm convinced that human beings CAN be better and do better. But are we committed? That's the issue.
Then educate people and change their minds to freely making the choice in not purchasing products from huge companies. Keep most things local. Stop buying all those useless products and this will starve those big companies 'til they collapse.

Capitalism is not at fault; peoples ignorance and lack of education is at fault. If you had a very good chance to be a billionaire in this capitalist system, you'd probably do it. Nothing wrong with being rich - it's what people do with their riches that deems it morally 'wrong' or 'right'- which can obviously be subjective, depending on the individual making such a judgement.

We cannot blame the system for things going wrong - we blame those fueling said corrupt people within that system for those things going wrong; then we seek to educate them and thus revolution can happen.

Like our government system: we cannot blast having a Republic (majority of people voting 'representatives' into power) for the crimes being committed within that Republic. No. We point the finger at and blame the individual criminals within that Republic for their abuse of power, then proceed to inform others and try to get those criminals out of power by not voting them back in!

Don't like big companies? Inform the masses not to buy their products anymore because of *such and such* reason(s).

Forcing those companies, of whom rightly made their money the fair way, to give up all they honestly earned by doing free trade and sales with the masses is not the way to go.

“Yes WE Can! Yes we Will!”

Level 8

Since: Jul 07

Baltimore, Md.

#2492 Feb 16, 2013
Barros Serrano wrote:
<quoted text>
I have to analyze this realistically, and it doesn't come up looking very good...
1960's... we had TWO strong currents of resistance---civil rights and antiwar---and we have nothing like that today. There is no issue even that unites black people let alone the general populace.
We had back then a strong legacy of worker activism from the 1930's, which included politically-oriented music on TV and radio, a Press interested in reporting on new things... now we have 900 channels and nothing on, the public brainwashed with corporate media for decades to be apathetic and selfish, little public consciousness of solidarity with suffering people, and abject cynicism about nearly everything. Sometimes as well I even believe the rightwing conspiratorialists that something was put into the water to make people complacent.
My concern and question is: WHERE will the spark be ignited? Where is the Rosa Parks incident that will motivate resistance? And around what issue?
I know how economic transformation could and should be done... I'm very good at that analysis, having studied 3rd world agrarian development issues, Jefferson, anarchy, etc. A nation of smallholders... but we have a nation in debt to Visa and Mastercard, dependent on an abusive job and pushed to the limits of time and energy. College isn't easy any more, financially, and Unions compared to the 60's are weak.
And then we've got the endless manipulations of the right, though out of power, apparently, not silent nor willing to end their political obstructionism.
Think globally, act locally is a cliche on the left. I'm in fact doing that, but I in my hick town am not going to cause a revolution. HOW does this get motivated, how can the torpor be overcome?
Perhaps new forms of struggle are necessary to supplement earlier forms. Perhaps such are already at least in a nascent stage of development.
That's why I encourage people not to be discouraged by what they take to be the inadequate achievements of the Arab Spring, the Occupy Movement or new labor insurgencies. Perhaps the art of Nonviolent revolution is something that has to learned and mastered, in practice as well as philosophically.
While preparing for a talk I will give on King, I was reading an essay of his in which he said that his philosophical study of nonviolence (e.g, writings of Gandhi, Tolstoy, Howard Thurman, Muste) won his INTELLLECTUAL assent. But it so happens that both his deeper emotiopnal commitment and his sense of the practical efficacy of nonviolent resistance was not achieved until Montgomery happened in December 1955.
And there are new situations to which nonviolent struggle must be applied. Labor unions emerged during the industrial phase of capitalism. Perhaps the electronic revolution in global capitalism means that new types of unions or other associaitons will be needed to advance the struggle. But these new forms will probably have to be DISCOVERED and INVENTED in and through the stuggle itself.
Even King and Gandhi had to explore, experiment, make mistakes, and learn from errors in order to push forward effectively the movement for social justice. WE must do the same.
Barros Serrano

Reserve, NM

#2493 Feb 16, 2013
Truthism wrote:
<quoted text>
Then educate people and change their minds to freely making the choice in not purchasing products from huge companies. Keep most things local. Stop buying all those useless products and this will starve those big companies 'til they collapse.
Capitalism is not at fault; peoples ignorance and lack of education is at fault. If you had a very good chance to be a billionaire in this capitalist system, you'd probably do it. Nothing wrong with being rich - it's what people do with their riches that deems it morally 'wrong' or 'right'- which can obviously be subjective, depending on the individual making such a judgement.
We cannot blame the system for things going wrong - we blame those fueling said corrupt people within that system for those things going wrong; then we seek to educate them and thus revolution can happen.
Like our government system: we cannot blast having a Republic (majority of people voting 'representatives' into power) for the crimes being committed within that Republic. No. We point the finger at and blame the individual criminals within that Republic for their abuse of power, then proceed to inform others and try to get those criminals out of power by not voting them back in!
Don't like big companies? Inform the masses not to buy their products anymore because of *such and such* reason(s).
Forcing those companies, of whom rightly made their money the fair way, to give up all they honestly earned by doing free trade and sales with the masses is not the way to go.
You are correct that strengthening local economies is vital.

However, don't let the capitalists off the hook. They dumbed down the populace. They own the media. They corrupt the political process. They ensure that their message predominates and they get their way even when Democrats are “in power”.

Corporate power is the only power that matters; Reaganomics solidified that. The people have to be conscious of the game being played on them, and that includes the brainwashing.

“Yes WE Can! Yes we Will!”

Level 8

Since: Jul 07

Baltimore, Md.

#2494 Feb 16, 2013
Truthism wrote:
<quoted text>
Then educate people and change their minds to freely making the choice in not purchasing products from huge companies. Keep most things local. Stop buying all those useless products and this will starve those big companies 'til they collapse.
Capitalism is not at fault; peoples ignorance and lack of education is at fault. If you had a very good chance to be a billionaire in this capitalist system, you'd probably do it. Nothing wrong with being rich - it's what people do with their riches that deems it morally 'wrong' or 'right'- which can obviously be subjective, depending on the individual making such a judgement.
We cannot blame the system for things going wrong - we blame those fueling said corrupt people within that system for those things going wrong; then we seek to educate them and thus revolution can happen.
Like our government system: we cannot blast having a Republic (majority of people voting 'representatives' into power) for the crimes being committed within that Republic. No. We point the finger at and blame the individual criminals within that Republic for their abuse of power, then proceed to inform others and try to get those criminals out of power by not voting them back in!
Don't like big companies? Inform the masses not to buy their products anymore because of *such and such* reason(s).
Forcing those companies, of whom rightly made their money the fair way, to give up all they honestly earned by doing free trade and sales with the masses is not the way to go.
Well I think that capitalism is at fault, but I agree about the importance of educating the people to liberate their minds and desires from the consumerist "trash of life."

“Yes WE Can! Yes we Will!”

Level 8

Since: Jul 07

Baltimore, Md.

#2495 Mar 17, 2013
ANGELA Y.DAVIS

I recently purchased and viewed the dvd "BLACK POWER MIXTAPE: 1967--1975"
And there was an interesting interview of Angela Davis by Swedish journalist.
He questioned her about the wisdom of violence in the Black revolutionary struggle,

Angala Davis, then a Marxist, interesting replied that people are mistaken when they equate revolution with violence. What's important are the GOALS of the revolution, she answered. The methods may or may not be violent.
The issue is what kind of society we wan to live in.
Previously, I saw a movie at the CHARLES THEATRE. called JOHN LENNON v.s. THE USA.
John Lennon, who appeared at one event with Bobby Seale, considered himself a revolutionary, but also an advocate of nonviolence,
Angela Davis was asked whether she thought that a contradiction. Angela Davis replied that people mistakenly assume that to be a revolutionary you must be a man of violence. But why? A revolutionary is a man or woman who wants to bring about fundamental, radical change in society for the betterment of the human condition. There is no reason to assume, Angela Davis continued, that a revolutionary can't be nonviolent.
At best violence is a tool, a method, or maybe a necessary evil. At worst it can be destructive of the revolution itself.
CLR James, another black Marxist revolutionary, wrote to a comrade (in light of the Montgomery Bus Boycott) that nonviolent resistance is the technique of revolutionay struggle in "our age." He noted that King was using techniques akin to those used by Gandhi and even for a while Kwame Nkruman.
Could we night be entering a new era of REVOLUTIONAY NONVIOLENCE

Level 8

Since: May 08

Pacific Northwest

#2496 Mar 17, 2013
Savant wrote:
...CLR James, another black Marxist revolutionary, wrote to a comrade (in light of the Montgomery Bus Boycott) that nonviolent resistance is the technique of revolutionay struggle in "our age." He noted that King was using techniques akin to those used by Gandhi and even for a while Kwame Nkruman.

Could we night be entering a new era of REVOLUTIONAY NONVIOLENCE
I don't wonder whether or not nonviolence can be revolutionary (I'm sure it can be), but instead I wonder how revolutionaries can effectively control how their agenda is portrayed by The Establishment. I suspect that is the key to how revolutionary any potential outcome would be.

Look at how the "Occupy" movement struggled to sustain its momentum as time wore on and how its message was marginalized by the mainstream media. At least that's my subjective perception; there may be relevant details about Occupy's impact that I've missed.

“Yes WE Can! Yes we Will!”

Level 8

Since: Jul 07

Baltimore, Md.

#2498 Mar 18, 2013
Harrisson wrote:
<quoted text>
I don't wonder whether or not nonviolence can be revolutionary (I'm sure it can be), but instead I wonder how revolutionaries can effectively control how their agenda is portrayed by The Establishment. I suspect that is the key to how revolutionary any potential outcome would be.
Look at how the "Occupy" movement struggled to sustain its momentum as time wore on and how its message was marginalized by the mainstream media. At least that's my subjective perception; there may be relevant details about Occupy's impact that I've missed.
We need to study and reassess both the Occupy Movement and the Arab Spring, two historically prescient movements foreshadowing (perhaps) a new era of revolutionary nonviolence.
As you probably recall from the King book chapter I shared with you, I think KIng may have been ahead of his time.
By the way, I think you should check out the dvd "Black Power MixTape" and "At the River I Stand." YOur library or some video store may have them.

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