Myth and fact cause confusion in health care debate

Socialized medicine is socialized medicine, no matter how you try to disguise the words, Mr. Rubel.

If the self absorbed politicians go ahead and pass this legislation, the only ones paying a serious price for it will be the American Public. They don't give a damned because they will not have to participate in this mandated piece of garbage.

As always, they have already exempted themselves from law which they create and pass. We will be paying for our own disastrous and worthless medical care, while at the same time we're paying for their very good medical care.

Case in point is Senator Kennedy's fight against brain cancer, who do you think is paying those medical bills? It sure as hell isn't the Senator.

Forget about it. This Health Care reform has been dubious and rushed. 80-90% of people are already insured. WHy spend billions on"reform"? Just start regulating insurance companies and health care companies to end price gouging. Oh, and REPORT AND DEPORT illegal aliens. Quit making our nation a dumping ground for unskilled poverty stricken poeple from third world countries. It is no longer neccessary for them to be STILL coming into this country.

Congressmen lie. Congressmen deceive. Congressmen think the voters in their District are either idiots or too apathetic to notice.

Friday's vote on health care for illegal aliens is such a perfect example. The vote was a farce that will be used by many Congressmen to defend themselves against charges that they promote illegal immigration, when in fact their action today just encouraged more of it.

Many Congressmen were stung by the intense phone calls and other outrage from their constituents after they successfully voted on Thursday to kill the "Deal amendment" that would have required verification to keep illegal aliens from getting any new federal health care.

So, they came back today to introduce another amendment that said illegal aliens couldn't get the health care.

HOWEVER ....

.... the amendment today provided for no verification. And actually reaffirmed other decisions of the last three years to include illegal aliens in various taxpayer-supported benefits.

Hat Tip: NumbersUSA

Hey Walter, it is no theory, it is an actual proposal from the Dems to require the elderly attend end of life counseling sessions aimed at terminating care, i.e. end your life.

I would have liked to see a public option. It's like the European System (not Canada or England, thats not Europe) where the private healthcare has to compete with each other and the government.

It will never happen here. To many pockets are lined by the Insurance Companies. To many politicians are paid off by them. They don't care.

"This Health Care reform has been dubious and rushed. 80-90% of people are already insured."

I have Health Insurance..$ 825.00 per month, 80/20 coverage, doesn't provide maternity and if you have a pre-existing condition they don't have to take you. You don't know how crappy your insurance is until you get sick. Oh, and if you do get sick, I hope you LOVE your job because you can never ever change it because nobody else will pick you up.

Its heart breaking to see this, absolutly heart breaking. Public Option is a perfect plan, just most people don't understand it, all senators get paid by the Insurance companies and yeah the Loewen who did the great research blah blah, is owned by one of the largest Insurance Companies.

Nothing will change, there is one hope. If you get really really sick, youre about to die and the insurance company refuses to give you chemo because youre over your limit, you can always go to canada and get it for free... And many do,,

If we don't get public Option, get rid of

Medicare
Medicade
VA
SChip

Why can't we have an OPTION??

John Stossel on ABC's 202/20 said it best Friday night when it comes to the proposed national healthcare program..... more people are going to stand in line for their health care and the people that are really sick are going to die sooner.

PS: our Senators and Congressmen get health care benefits valued at $18,000 a year... will the new national health care proposal give all of us the same level of health care or are the good Senators and Congressmen going to get in the socialized health care lines and die early with the rest of us?

Term limits.

LCGirl wrote:

If we don't get public Option, get rid of
Medicare
Medicade
VA
SChip
Why can't we have an OPTION??

******
Because the VA is paying for care for those who have borne the battle. If you get hurt on your job, do you not expect your employer to pay for your care?

Why would you, Walt Ruebel, make the statement "that Dems plan to reduce costs by requiring old people to attend counseling sessions advocating suicide."

No where in this bill did I see a requirement for "suicide". This is liberal speak. Taking an objection and magnifying it to the point where it is offensive and then blaming someone else for its propagation.

What the health care bill says is that the provider to the medicare patient is mandated to have a once every five year consultation, more often if the patient is ill, to inform the patient of end of life choices. Unfortunately, the bill goes on to delineate the end of life choices that are to be considered. All of the choices to be considered in the consultation are limiting medical care. No where in the options stated does it say the senior is able to choose all available care.

Not only is the provided mandated to have the consultation, but must report the occurence of the consultation and the results to the Secretary of Health and Human Services.

Furthermore, the bill creates a committee/board of individuals who will determine what appropriate care is.

The president's closest medical advisors have both stated and/or written about how too much money is spent in the last year of life for seniors.

Seniors will be compelled to have the consultations, be asked to sign living wills to limit end of life medical care and if they don't will still be subject to the determination of "appropriate care" by a board.

Suicide, no. Rationing, the worst kind, they want us to sign a paper that allows/give permission to ration our care.

LCGirl wrote:

I have Health Insurance..$ 825.00 per month, 80/20 coverage, doesn't provide maternity and if you have a pre-existing condition they don't have to take you. You don't know how crappy your insurance is until you get sick. Oh, and if you do get sick, I hope you LOVE your job because you can never ever change it because nobody else will pick you up.

Sounds like you are getting ripped off.

Try: https://osc.hscil.com/nm/Quoting/Applicants.a...

Think about it wrote:

Why would you, Walt Ruebel, make the statement "that Dems plan to reduce costs by requiring old people to attend counseling sessions advocating suicide."
No where in this bill did I see a requirement for "suicide". This is liberal speak. Taking an objection and magnifying it to the point where it is offensive and then blaming someone else for its propagation.
What the health care bill says is that the provider to the medicare patient is mandated to have a once every five year consultation, more often if the patient is ill, to inform the patient of end of life choices. Unfortunately, the bill goes on to delineate the end of life choices that are to be considered. All of the choices to be considered in the consultation are limiting medical care. No where in the options stated does it say the senior is able to choose all available care.
Not only is the provided mandated to have the consultation, but must report the occurence of the consultation and the results to the Secretary of Health and Human Services.
Furthermore, the bill creates a committee/board of individuals who will determine what appropriate care is.
The president's closest medical advisors have both stated and/or written about how too much money is spent in the last year of life for seniors.
Seniors will be compelled to have the consultations, be asked to sign living wills to limit end of life medical care and if they don't will still be subject to the determination of "appropriate care" by a board.
Suicide, no. Rationing, the worst kind, they want us to sign a paper that allows/give permission to ration our care.

He didn't say it. He said it was one of the whacky theories floating around.

Rubel wrote:

It would have been helpful to congressional Democrats - especially House freshmen from vulnerable districts like Harry Teague - if they had an actual bill to discuss during the recess. It would have also raised the level of debate. With several bills still in the works, there's plenty of room for whacky theories like the one making the rounds now that Dems plan to reduce costs by requiring old people to attend counseling sessions advocating suicide.

LC Today wrote:

Socialized medicine is socialized medicine, no matter how you try to disguise the words, Mr. Rubel.
If the self absorbed politicians go ahead and pass this legislation, the only ones paying a serious price for it will be the American Public. They don't give a damned because they will not have to participate in this mandated piece of garbage.
As always, they have already exempted themselves from law which they create and pass. We will be paying for our own disastrous and worthless medical care, while at the same time we're paying for their very good medical care.
Case in point is Senator Kennedy's fight against brain cancer, who do you think is paying those medical bills? It sure as hell isn't the Senator.

There is not a viable proposal on the table for anything that any one can rationally or TRUTHFULLY call socialized medicine.

"As always, they have already exempted themselves from law which they create and pass." ABSOLUTELY FALSE! As it stands right now, they will be subject to the same restriction to switch plans as all major employers.

As a person who is fortunate enough to be employed by the Federal Government Sen. Kennedy pick one of the many health insurance plans available to all other federal employees. Plus with his wealth, he doesn't have to worry about deductibles, co-pays, or being canceled, or changing employers with his preexisting condition.

PlacitasRoy wrote:

<quoted text>
There is not a viable proposal on the table for anything that any one can rationally or TRUTHFULLY call socialized medicine.
"As always, they have already exempted themselves from law which they create and pass." ABSOLUTELY FALSE! As it stands right now, they will be subject to the same restriction to switch plans as all major employers.
As a person who is fortunate enough to be employed by the Federal Government Sen. Kennedy pick one of the many health insurance plans available to all other federal employees. Plus with his wealth, he doesn't have to worry about deductibles, co-pays, or being canceled, or changing employers with his preexisting condition.

Roy, you've been misrepresenting the facts over and over re ""As always, they have already exempted themselves from law which they create and pass." ABSOLUTELY FALSE! As it stands right now, they will be subject to the same restriction to switch plans as all major employers." In case you missed the point, the politicians will NOT be in the same plan as the general population because their plan is far superior to most plans. So why would they ever want to switch from the great deal they have to the socialized POS the rest of us will end up with?

good god wrote:

Hey Walter, it is no theory, it is an actual proposal from the Dems to require the elderly attend end of life counseling sessions aimed at terminating care, i.e. end your life.

There are three kinds of people who believe that myth. The misinformed, brainwashed dittoheads and foxholes, and intentional LIARs. Which are you?

This is nothing but a part of the the Big Lie by the Reich-wing. This started with a LIAR on Fred Thompson's radio show. Politicfact rated it as a "PANTS ON FIRE!" http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/state...

Rep. Earl Blumenauer who co-authored the provision released a fact sheet on advance planning consultations in the House health care bill that states: "Myth: Patients will be forced to have this consultation once every five years. Fact: ADVANCE PLANNING CONSULTATIONS ARE NOT MANDATORY; THIS BENEFIT IS COMPLETELY VOLUNTARY. The provision merely provides coverage under Medicare to have a conversation once every five years if -- and only if -- a patient wants to make his or her wishes known to a doctor. If desired, patients may have consultations more frequently if they are chronically ill or if their health status changes." http://mediamatters.org/research/200907310051

jimbob wrote:

<quoted text>Roy, you've been misrepresenting the facts over and over re ""As always, they have already exempted themselves from law which they create and pass." ABSOLUTELY FALSE! As it stands right now, they will be subject to the same restriction to switch plans as all major employers." In case you missed the point, the politicians will NOT be in the same plan as the general population because their plan is far superior to most plans. So why would they ever want to switch from the great deal they have to the socialized POS the rest of us will end up with?

I got the point. It is the same old myth that has been tossed around for years. I stand by my statement "As it stands right now, they will be subject to the same restriction to switch plans as all major employers."

"the politicians will NOT be in the same plan as the general population because their plan is far superior to most plans." The Congress critters do not have "a Plan." They have access to all the plans all Federal employees are offered, and as such have a options superior to all the majority of health insurance plans. They do have a low-cost commissary in the Capitol and can be admitted to Walter Reed.

From SNOPES: "If this does not sufficiently raise your ire, just remember that Senators and Congressmen have their own healthcare plan that is first dollar or very low co-pay

As federal employees, members of Congress are eligible for the Federal Employees Health Benefits Program (FEHBP), which is not a single health care plan but rather a collection of many different private health insurance plans from which enrollees can choose. In general, the FEHBP offerings are similar to Medicare (with prescription drug coverage), although even supporters of a national health program have criticized the FEHBP for having the "same problems of private plans generally: administrative waste, restrictions on health care providers, inequities, and inadequate cost control." http://www.snopes.com/politics/medical/senior...

Don't let facts get in your way! Spread the Big Lies that come from propagandists. Toss your misinformation and puppycr@p around.

Fed Up in NM wrote:

<quoted text>He didn't say it. He said it was one of the whacky theories floating around. <quoted text>

He was too kind to the ignorant brainwashed dittoheads, foxholes, and LIARs.

"Quit making our nation a dumping ground for unskilled poverty stricken poeple from third world countries.

Hey Native American:
This sounds like American Indians to me. They won't leave their reservations to find a job.

Okie Dokie wrote:

PS: our Senators and Congressmen get health care benefits valued at $18,000 a year... will the new national health care proposal give all of us the same level of health care or are the good Senators and Congressmen going to get in the socialized health care lines and die early with the rest of us?

I don't believe you. Document that wilda$$ claim with some reputable source.

Of course you'll have to debunk the SNOPES discussion of their benefits. http://www.snopes.com/politics/medical/senior...