The future of Pittsburgh: Stop blaming commuters

It's the commuters that cause all the problems. The city should actually close the borders and keep them out (period). They do nothing for the city, they use up valuable space and public services, cause traffic congestion and add very little to the city's finances. The mayor and council have pointed this out on many occasions.

They are the reason for Port Authority. We could have a good rail system,(as we once had) if it weren't for the commuters. They sneak in at night and buy drugs, they are involved in city shootings, and they do not pay taxes to the city. Most of them have left the city and they should be not be permitted to return, for any reason. The city has a purity about it and the suburbanites pollute this purity by their very presence.

The city does not need them, does not want them, and should keep them out. The mayor and council know this and should act upon it with haste. If there are businesses that require people from the suburbs, then those businesses should leave as well. It's time to draw the line.

Our city employees are required to live in the city and the suburbanites should not allowed to come to the city.

Merge the city, the county and all these silly, ridiculously wasteful little burroughs into one conglomerate. I bet in 50 burroughs, there are 50 mayors, 50 head librarians and 50 police chiefs. The millions, if not billions, we could save by merging these tiny little autonomous neighborhoods into the city would be awesome

Hi Old Cynic. Once again, you come directly to the point. That's what I like about you :-)
Regarding the article... yes, Pgh w/out commuters would be in worse straits than it is already.

RE: Old Cynic...

If it were not for us suburbanites there would be no City of Pittsburgh.

If it were not for the majority of us, there would be no businesses (large or small), hardly any amusement venues, eateries, shopping, etc. etc. etc.

If there are no businesses, there are no jobs, no jobs equals no economy, no economy equals a waste land.

We are not the reason for Port Authority - Port Authority is the reason for us. In many suburban areas (such as mine) the already limited service was cut to only a few buses a day - making it difficult for us suburbanites to get to jobs without commuting.

Excuse me for wanting to raise my children in a community where gunfire is not a nightly occurrence. It is not I, nor anyone I know, that comes into the city to participate in a shooting or purchase drugs. My understanding, from most local news stations, is that it is city residents that are shooting each other and exchanging drugs.

My husband works in the city and pays his share of taxes to do so. I frequent the city, with my children, to take in its numerous (and wonderful) attractions and venues. I pay it's parking fee's and various taxes. My children squeal in delight every time we reach the city side opening of the Fort Pitt tunnels - just as I did when I was a child.

How dare you say that I as a suburbanite "pollute this purity by their [my] very presence." It is my very presence that helps to keep our beautiful city alive.

I'll take a wild guess that Old Cynic was joking in his post.

The county thrives with the city and vice versa. I'll never live in the city until all the Democrats die along with their union/thug mentality. But I do frequent the stadiums, restaurants, and theaters quite a bit. The city gets their fare share of money from me.

COPANUT wrote:

I'll take a wild guess that Old Cynic was joking in his post.
The county thrives with the city and vice versa. I'll never live in the city until all the Democrats die along with their union/thug mentality. But I do frequent the stadiums, restaurants, and theaters quite a bit. The city gets their fare share of money from me.

Hmmmmm - Maybe, perhaps, but - If you listen to the city officials, you must come to the same conclusion. The only problem with the city is the suburbs. They are the wilderness surrounding Eden.

COPANUT wrote:

I'll take a wild guess that Old Cynic was joking in his post.
The county thrives with the city and vice versa. I'll never live in the city until all the Democrats die along with their union/thug mentality. But I do frequent the stadiums, restaurants, and theaters quite a bit. The city gets their fare share of money from me.

and you get your fair share of entertainment from the city.

A Suburbanite wrote:

RE: Old Cynic...
If it were not for us suburbanites there would be no City of Pittsburgh.
If it were not for the majority of us, there would be no businesses (large or small), hardly any amusement venues, eateries, shopping, etc. etc. etc.
If there are no businesses, there are no jobs, no jobs equals no economy, no economy equals a waste land.
We are not the reason for Port Authority - Port Authority is the reason for us. In many suburban areas (such as mine) the already limited service was cut to only a few buses a day - making it difficult for us suburbanites to get to jobs without commuting.
Excuse me for wanting to raise my children in a community where gunfire is not a nightly occurrence. It is not I, nor anyone I know, that comes into the city to participate in a shooting or purchase drugs. My understanding, from most local news stations, is that it is city residents that are shooting each other and exchanging drugs.
My husband works in the city and pays his share of taxes to do so. I frequent the city, with my children, to take in its numerous (and wonderful) attractions and venues. I pay it's parking fee's and various taxes. My children squeal in delight every time we reach the city side opening of the Fort Pitt tunnels - just as I did when I was a child.
How dare you say that I as a suburbanite "pollute this purity by their [my] very presence." It is my very presence that helps to keep our beautiful city alive.

this whole city/suburb division is beyond ridiculous.

by the way, it's often suburbanites buying drugs in the city and then taking them back with them.

and it's not just "city" people involved in the shootings. when the news reports on such incidents, they also include where the participants are from.

finally, if it were not for cities, suburbs would not spring up. no city - not jobs and no (certain) entertainment for suburbanites to come to.

nappyrhino wrote:

<quoted text>
this whole city/suburb division is beyond ridiculous.

finally, if it were not for cities, suburbs would not spring up. no city - not jobs and no (certain) entertainment for suburbanites to come to.

As I stated, the county and city need each other. But the whole concept of "Downtown" is changing. How many on a daily basis work there as opposed to even 5 years ago? I don't, my wife doesn't, my next door neighbors on both sides don't. More and more jobs are in the 'burbs, no traffic, no long commute, no city taxes. If the Boy Mayor and company continue to raise commuter taxes, more and more companies will headquarter outside the city limits. I like the city, but I shouldn't be expected to be taxed outrageously.

COPANUT wrote:

<quoted text>
As I stated, the county and city need each other. But the whole concept of "Downtown" is changing. How many on a daily basis work there as opposed to even 5 years ago? I don't, my wife doesn't, my next door neighbors on both sides don't. More and more jobs are in the 'burbs, no traffic, no long commute, no city taxes. If the Boy Mayor and company continue to raise commuter taxes, more and more companies will headquarter outside the city limits. I like the city, but I shouldn't be expected to be taxed outrageously.

i've been working downtown since 95 and living in the city since 97.

if i don't have to, i don't go downtown - hate paying jacked up parking rates, hate $54 tickets at parking meters and i hate the walk you need to take if you want to park on the street somewhere and not get towed.

i'm not saying the place is perfect, no place is, but i just find this divisiveness hilarious - particulary when you consider how many suburbanites used to live in the city, and how so many from the suburbs are now moving BACK to the city.

Sometime in the next century we might see beer, wine and spirits sold in grocery stores.
They might even legalize and tax marijuana, but they will never give up the boroughs, townships and hamlets, of self appointed demigods, not in our lifetime.

Freddy Pickle wrote:

Merge the city, the county and all these silly, ridiculously wasteful little burroughs into one conglomerate. I bet in 50 burroughs, there are 50 mayors, 50 head librarians and 50 police chiefs. The millions, if not billions, we could save by merging these tiny little autonomous neighborhoods into the city would be awesome

There are 130 municipal governments in Allegheny County. The few cities outside of Pittsburgh do have mayors; the boroughs also have a "weak" mayor; but there is no such office in the townships, of either the first or second class. As the county operating budget isn't even $800M, and that includes state & federal pass throughs, so I think the billions of savings from a merger is a clear exaggeration. And you've got a much better chance of buying a bottle of wine or a six pack of beer in a grocery store than seeing any serious consolidation in local governments. The up side is that whjen the world does end, it'll still take the Pittsburgh region at least a decade to catch up with oblivion (thosugh some would argue our politicians, local & state, have been oblivious to everything for many, many years now, already

Krakus wrote:

<quoted text>
There are 130 municipal governments in Allegheny County. The few cities outside of Pittsburgh do have mayors; the boroughs also have a "weak" mayor; but there is no such office in the townships, of either the first or second class.

Thats 130 municipal governments too many. Literally thousands of duplicate jobs, repeated salaries and overlapping services. It is the epitome of wastefulness.

Krakus wrote:

As the county operating budget isn't even $800M, and that includes state & federal pass throughs, so I think the billions of savings from a merger is a clear exaggeration.

$800m over five years is $4b. Its not an exaggeration at all.

Krakus wrote:

And you've got a much better chance of buying a bottle of wine or a six pack of beer in a grocery store than seeing any serious consolidation in local governments. The up side is that whjen the world does end, it'll still take the Pittsburgh region at least a decade to catch up with oblivion (thosugh some would argue our politicians, local & state, have been oblivious to everything for many, many years now, already

True. Pennsylvanians care more about their booze than they do in paying less taxes. Its sad, though.

Thousands of duplicate jobs? Not as many as you would think, outside of elected officials. For eample, a far higher percentage of police are part-timers at a low hourly wage with no benefits in small communities. Fire protection service tends to be paid in large municipalities where they are volunteers in small towns. What do you mean by "repeated" salaries or "overlapping" services?

As for exaggerating the benefits, if you don't specify a time frame, Freddy, an annual budgeting cycle is assumed by default in government. You demean yourself when you try salvage your errors through cleverness.

Krakus wrote:

What do you mean by "repeated" salaries or "overlapping" services?

There are three separate libraries all within walking distance from my front door. One is in Pittsburgh and the other two are in borroughs. There are about five or six Fire Departments within a 5 minute drive from my front door. All this redundancy is just so wasteful, you have to be blind or stubborn as a mule to not see it.

Krakus wrote:

As for exaggerating the benefits, if you don't specify a time frame, Freddy, an annual budgeting cycle is assumed by default in government. You demean yourself when you try salvage your errors through cleverness.

You give me too much credit. I wasn't trying to be clever at all, just honest. A billion dollars over ten years is still a billion dollars (more actually, after being adjusted for inflation and interest). You're a smart guy, you should be able to pick up on this.

WHO has the GUTS to tell a Kid, going to a Pittsburgh Hospital they have to pay a $ 25.00 sick fee ? Those bald kids could buy a Wig for $ 25.00. May God Bless those who voted for this "SICK TAX", may they have the first opportune to pay it. Bless us God.

My fiance's from the suburbs (Mercer County). Her Dad had to come to Allegheny General recently and was "Life Flighted" there. It was a family event, like they were going to Disneyland. And this isn't just the first time. And I know its not just them. You can pick the suburbanites out easily with their modern haircuts, matching clothes, taste in cars, language and company. Of course they should pay extra. They HAVE to come here for certain things. And since they're not contributing as much as the rest of us city folk, there's no reason why they shouldn't have to pay a premium.

OK, not to be a troll, but should your fiance's parents pay more?
My most recent hospital visits for tests was done in the North Hills UMPC. My wife's in Cranberry. If the city keeps taxing the crap out of suburbanites the suburban hospitals will take up the slack.
I love going to the city for plays, ballgames, restaurants, museums, you name it. You want to charge me an extra buck for admission vs a city resident, no problem. But if The Boy Mayor starts sticking it to suburbanites, I can live quite nicely with never setting a foot in city limits.

Freddy Pickle wrote:

My fiance's from the suburbs (Mercer County). Her Dad had to come to Allegheny General recently and was "Life Flighted" there. It was a family event, like they were going to Disneyland. And this isn't just the first time. And I know its not just them. You can pick the suburbanites out easily with their modern haircuts, matching clothes, taste in cars, language and company. Of course they should pay extra. They HAVE to come here for certain things. And since they're not contributing as much as the rest of us city folk, there's no reason why they shouldn't have to pay a premium.

I'm attempting to understand, truly, where you're coming from on this particular issue. If, for example, you were involved in an automobile accident in the suburbs, you would not receive a bill from the police or the fire department for coming to your aid. These are services that we already pay for. Where I live, we pay a yearly subscription for ambulance service. When ever the volunteer fire department holds fund raisers, we gladly help out...and I'm not talking about throwing one or two dollars into the boot. If the commuter tax is raised again, it will cause us an additional burden. We're not rich by any means. We're just regular people going about our regular lives. Sorry...I'm going off of the topic.

COPANUT wrote:

OK, not to be a troll, but should your fiance's parents pay more?

You're not being a troll. You're posting something relevant and not just mindlessly attacking other posters, as you usually do. My hat's off to you!

Yes, they should pay more. I think I expressed that idea in the post you're replying to.

COPANUT wrote:

My most recent hospital visits for tests was done in the North Hills UMPC. My wife's in Cranberry. If the city keeps taxing the crap out of suburbanites the suburban hospitals will take up the slack.

There's some stuff, alot of stuff really, that just can't be done at these little rinky dink suburban hospitals. Since I've been in PA (almost 3 years now), people in my fiance's family have had to come to either Pittsburgh or Cleveland for medical reasons four times now. Every time its a family event. These suburban hospitals, I've been to them, are little more than over-priced nursing homes. Extremely over-priced nursing homes.

COPANUT wrote:

I love going to the city for plays, ballgames, restaurants, museums, you name it. You want to charge me an extra buck for admission vs a city resident, no problem. But if The Boy Mayor starts sticking it to suburbanites, I can live quite nicely with never setting a foot in city limits.

I never suggested adding on a $30 fee every time you want to go to the Conservatory or Zoo. But asking you to pay a few dollars more to visit these venues is not asking too much. And regarding the $25 fee to come to the hospital, when they're charging you thousands of dollars to begin with,$25 is, proportionally, much lower than that extra $2-5 you should be paying to come to the Zoo!

Finally, if you're never going to set foot in the city again, what truly are your options? To live like some Amish out in the boonies? You gonna start going to Cleveland twice a year to watch the Steelers there? Are you going to drive to Buffalo to visit their Zoo (which is actually really nice)? Come on, you suburbanites love the city. Thats why you come here so often. You're just whining to be asked to carry your fair share of the tax burden like the rest of us.