New Lebanon County tax committee formed

Woopity doo!!!! Just a bunch of rich snobs, probably many of them who knew Foltz, handling our money. I'm so pleased! Can we get all of the old employees in there as well, that will guarantee success.

Yippee you have no clue. None of the current board members was on the board when Foltz was executive director, except maybe Donna Moyer of Elco.

And I don't know how you define "rich" but they don't appear to fit that category either. All of the board members are volunteers/appointees. No one gets paid.

Which boards do you serve on Yippee?

If you truly want to learn more about how the EIT tax collection and distribution system was a total mess throughout the ENTIRE state of Pennsylvania and NOT just here in Lebanon county, please read the following analysis:
"Pennsylvania's Earned Earned Income Tax Collection Sytem. An Analysis with Recommendations.
August 2004"
You should find this 56 page report through Google.
Don't be fooled by the comments that this was a problem just created by one individual.

Not doubting there were other problems with EIT in other areas, but probably not many involved the theft of $811,000 by one person via an unauthorized bank account.

Innocent people generally don't commit suicide.

Never forget wrote:

Not doubting there were other problems with EIT in other areas, but probably not many involved the theft of $811,000 by one person via an unauthorized bank account.
Innocent people generally don't commit suicide.

The Lebanon EIT Bureau received repayment of the $811,000 minus their deductible from the insurance/bonding company.
The "theft" now that they want us to belive is the repayment form those that were "over-paid" to those that were "under-paid".
The McKonly Ashbury report is what they are basing their numbers on. If you read the report it specifically states that it is only a report, and not audit. If someone told you you owed thousands of dollars, wouldn't you want some type of proof or records? In the case of the past operations of Lebanon EIT Bureau those records were never kept, therefore, they don't exist to create a basis for their demands.
As our solicitor stated at the past borough meeing here in Mt Gretna, some records were stashed in garbage bags found in a closet.
And one other note. Mr. Foltz, the theif, was under the employment and guidance of the Lebanon EIT Bureau.
Read and learn all you can. Please.

Finally, someone with some common sense. How many morons does it take to convince the public that money returned from the theft was just that "MISSING MONEY". The money was returned and GUESS WHAT??????? THe overpayments/underpayments still exist. Now, let's look at how all of that money managed to get into all of the wrong places, shall we???? As far as me not knowing the board members, you are correct. But it doesn't seem like even this new board cares a crap about the truth of what really happened inside that office. THere is more to this story than this illustrious newspaper has reported or that the people now doing the supposedly transparent reporting care to let us know. DId Donald Foltz crack the whip and employees responded because quite clearly he could not have done the collection, data entry, reporting, etc. He had helpers to create a mess this large.

Mt Gretna wrote:

<quoted text>
The Lebanon EIT Bureau received repayment of the $811,000 minus their deductible from the insurance/bonding company.
The "theft" now that they want us to belive is the repayment form those that were "over-paid" to those that were "under-paid".
The McKonly Ashbury report is what they are basing their numbers on. If you read the report it specifically states that it is only a report, and not audit. If someone told you you owed thousands of dollars, wouldn't you want some type of proof or records? In the case of the past operations of Lebanon EIT Bureau those records were never kept, therefore, they don't exist to create a basis for their demands.
As our solicitor stated at the past borough meeing here in Mt Gretna, some records were stashed in garbage bags found in a closet.
And one other note. Mr. Foltz, the theif, was under the employment and guidance of the Lebanon EIT Bureau.
Read and learn all you can. Please.

Also, if there were no records, why would that be? Were they destroyed? If so by who? I would like to know the truth. Is there anyone who knows the truth who will tell the truth? Not in this band of secret keepers.

Mt Gretna wrote:

<quoted text>
The Lebanon EIT Bureau received repayment of the $811,000 minus their deductible from the insurance/bonding company.
The "theft" now that they want us to belive is the repayment form those that were "over-paid" to those that were "under-paid".
The McKonly Ashbury report is what they are basing their numbers on. If you read the report it specifically states that it is only a report, and not audit. If someone told you you owed thousands of dollars, wouldn't you want some type of proof or records? In the case of the past operations of Lebanon EIT Bureau those records were never kept, therefore, they don't exist to create a basis for their demands.
As our solicitor stated at the past borough meeing here in Mt Gretna, some records were stashed in garbage bags found in a closet.
And one other note. Mr. Foltz, the theif, was under the employment and guidance of the Lebanon EIT Bureau.
Read and learn all you can. Please.

Does anyone know what happened to the former board and solicitor of the EIT? It seems this happened and clearly to me there should have been some concerns in this 4 year period as to what Foltz was doing by one or some of those board members? It seems they all walked away without as much as a hand slap, yet the accounting firm that worked once or twice a year is being held accountable? Does anyone know?

Question. Question. Question.
We must never stop this questioning of the EIT Board,your borough and township council, and your current township/borough solicitor. Your solicitor, by the way, is part of the group of Lebanon County solicitors who are meeting to decide how to correct the "under-paid vs over-paid" issue. The BIG conflict of interest issue in this group is that your solicitor may be representing various municpalities which are on both sides of the fence.
Our solicitor, for example, represents two municipalites that were "over-paid" and four municipalites that were "under-paid".
On which side of the table does he sit during these meetings?
What side of the table does your solicitor sit?
Ask.

Mt Gretna wrote:

Question. Question. Question.
We must never stop this questioning of the EIT Board,your borough and township council, and your current township/borough solicitor. Your solicitor, by the way, is part of the group of Lebanon County solicitors who are meeting to decide how to correct the "under-paid vs over-paid" issue. The BIG conflict of interest issue in this group is that your solicitor may be representing various municpalities which are on both sides of the fence.
Our solicitor, for example, represents two municipalites that were "over-paid" and four municipalites that were "under-paid".
On which side of the table does he sit during these meetings?
What side of the table does your solicitor sit?
Ask.

They're all crooked loons and need to be replaced.

And despite the spin, the guy behind the fiasco in Lebanon County was not only incompetent but an embezzeler to boot.

He was incompetent leading incompetents. He was also a thief. But I still want answers. That office did not run by itself or by 1 man. He had employees he oversaw. How did they not know that records were missing? Did they just do what he told them to do without question? If so, he was not the only criminal in the place. For 4 years this man did whatever he did and not one employee felt anything was wrong???????? If they did, did they do anything about it or did they do what he told them to do? Talk about incompetence????

Morbius wrote:

<quoted text>
They're all crooked loons and need to be replaced.
And despite the spin, the guy behind the fiasco in Lebanon County was not only incompetent but an embezzeler to boot.

Wondering wrote:

He was incompetent leading incompetents. He was also a thief. But I still want answers. That office did not run by itself or by 1 man. He had employees he oversaw. How did they not know that records were missing? Did they just do what he told them to do without question? If so, he was not the only criminal in the place. For 4 years this man did whatever he did and not one employee felt anything was wrong???????? If they did, did they do anything about it or did they do what he told them to do? Talk about incompetence????
<quoted text>

The Earned Income Tax (EIT) was offically adopted by our Lebanon County School school districts around 1968 after it became law in 1965 via Act 511. The non-existant records, non-compliance, and total lack of audits for financial verification has been in place for 40 plus years, not just the 4 years that Foltz did his thing.
If you ask the officials for any type of verifiaction of income and disbursements for those past 4 decades, their reply is they don't exist.
And based uponthatresponse, they want us to dig into our pockets and pay for their past mistakes. We already paid once, and they screwed it up.
We're not paying again.

So even though the documents were sent to the tax office and the office had the ability to process things properly (they did), you are saying that absolutely no one did a thing wrong? I beg to differ. If this is a universal problem with every tax collection entity, then why the fuss over this one? Why isn't every other county going through this? Because the people in those counties actually kept records. That's the difference. They didn't have personal agendas, they actually did the job they were paid to do.

Mt Gretna wrote:

<quoted text>
The Earned Income Tax (EIT) was offically adopted by our Lebanon County School school districts around 1968 after it became law in 1965 via Act 511. The non-existant records, non-compliance, and total lack of audits for financial verification has been in place for 40 plus years, not just the 4 years that Foltz did his thing.
If you ask the officials for any type of verifiaction of income and disbursements for those past 4 decades, their reply is they don't exist.
And based uponthatresponse, they want us to dig into our pockets and pay for their past mistakes. We already paid once, and they screwed it up.
We're not paying again.

Wondering wrote:

So even though the documents were sent to the tax office and the office had the ability to process things properly (they did), you are saying that absolutely no one did a thing wrong? I beg to differ. If this is a universal problem with every tax collection entity, then why the fuss over this one? Why isn't every other county going through this? Because the people in those counties actually kept records. That's the difference. They didn't have personal agendas, they actually did the job they were paid to do. <quoted text>

Please go back and read my first post, number 3 in the comment list. If you take the time to find the noted document online and read the information, you will learn that this was a state wide issue, and not just here in little ole Lebanon County.
Not one single tax collector for the EIT system, all 2,800 of them,(more than all the other tax collectors combined in the entire U.S) was required to keep records, provide audits, or provide reports according to how ACT 511 was written. So, ye, their were those that did the right thing, there were others that took advantage of no oversight.
Again. We taxpayers should not re-pay the price for this past incompetance, both county and state wide.

I agree that the taxpayers shouldn't be paying for this. But the other issue I have is why are they going on wild goose chases after people that had nothing to do with the stolen money? Why don't they get the facts before they start ruining people's lives? They went after that employee only to drop it. Why? I'm guessing because they wanted to show the world they were working on it, not giving thought to that person or even his wife for that matter. I think the former board is trying to save their own asses and trying to pin the blame on this on anyone. I hope the accountant (Faren) can turn around and sue the pants off of someone. I say let's see how much spending every single entity associated with that tax office, EVERYONE, did and see if they can justify it. I'm rather curious how they came to the conclusions they came to. Transparent my ass.

Mt Gretna wrote:

<quoted text>
Please go back and read my first post, number 3 in the comment list. If you take the time to find the noted document online and read the information, you will learn that this was a state wide issue, and not just here in little ole Lebanon County.
Not one single tax collector for the EIT system, all 2,800 of them,(more than all the other tax collectors combined in the entire U.S) was required to keep records, provide audits, or provide reports according to how ACT 511 was written. So, ye, their were those that did the right thing, there were others that took advantage of no oversight.
Again. We taxpayers should not re-pay the price for this past incompetance, both county and state wide.

Look, the FBI did a thorough investigation,and found that money was indeed missing, but could NOT pin it on Foltz. This is why all the legal actions that the Bureau initiated were thrown out of court. The bottom line is that Foltx put $811,000 in a bank account under the EIT Bureau name, and there it stayed. Even the FBI couldn't find any evidence that he spent any monies above and beyond what he earned. But, as usual, media fails to relay those details to us. Reality doesn't sell papaers.
There is no evidence that there was any under or over payment---NONE.
More importantly, the current distribution of EIT revenue by this EIT Bureau is illegal. It is a change in the administration of this tax--and those changes need to be adopted by resolution. That was NEVER done--even Kelin, the Bureau's attorney can't--or won't, share any evidence showing that the current distribution policy is legit.
We may be in "pennsatucky", but we are not in "pennsa ph_k me." Narrowmindedness will only get you so far.

To "wondering"
The FBI did find that money is missing--as did the states report on the EIT system. That report found that an estimated 100 to 200 MILLION go missing each YEAR in the collection of EIT.
So, why is the Bureau behaving the way it is. First, it is going after the "low fruit"--ie. those that have little to no resources to defend themselves. Second, it is trying to establish enough of an accusation trail to trigger payment by the public employee's bonding company-ak, insurance. Third, the Bureau is trying to CIA-cover its @ss. The Bureau had complete responsibilty for oversight of this tax, and failed that responsibility in a royal way.Given that the FBI found that there is indeed large amounts of money missing and that they can't even begin to figure out who did it, getting "strangers" PO'd at each other is a classic scapegoat technique.

Here's some more reality for you, Ann. Foltz killed himself. Innocent people generally don't do that.

Interesting information. I'm a bit flustered how our legal system will allow people to be tormented without any proof whatsoever they were involved and if you are correct, without any reason to believe Foltz even spent the money? If he didn't spend the money, what did he do with it?

not in pennsa ph_k me wrote:

Look, the FBI did a thorough investigation,and found that money was indeed missing, but could NOT pin it on Foltz. This is why all the legal actions that the Bureau initiated were thrown out of court. The bottom line is that Foltx put $811,000 in a bank account under the EIT Bureau name, and there it stayed. Even the FBI couldn't find any evidence that he spent any monies above and beyond what he earned. But, as usual, media fails to relay those details to us. Reality doesn't sell papaers.
There is no evidence that there was any under or over payment---NONE.
More importantly, the current distribution of EIT revenue by this EIT Bureau is illegal. It is a change in the administration of this tax--and those changes need to be adopted by resolution. That was NEVER done--even Kelin, the Bureau's attorney can't--or won't, share any evidence showing that the current distribution policy is legit.
We may be in "pennsatucky", but we are not in "pennsa ph_k me." Narrowmindedness will only get you so far.

I like the way you think.

not in pennsa ph_k me wrote:

To "wondering"
The FBI did find that money is missing--as did the states report on the EIT system. That report found that an estimated 100 to 200 MILLION go missing each YEAR in the collection of EIT.
So, why is the Bureau behaving the way it is. First, it is going after the "low fruit"--ie. those that have little to no resources to defend themselves. Second, it is trying to establish enough of an accusation trail to trigger payment by the public employee's bonding company-ak, insurance. Third, the Bureau is trying to CIA-cover its @ss. The Bureau had complete responsibilty for oversight of this tax, and failed that responsibility in a royal way.Given that the FBI found that there is indeed large amounts of money missing and that they can't even begin to figure out who did it, getting "strangers" PO'd at each other is a classic scapegoat technique.