Tough times for town centers

Uptown altamonte is total garbage.

1 Who would want to live right next to I-4

2 No non-residents want to visit what is basically an outdoor mall with the same old crappy chain stores

King Whitey wrote:

Uptown altamonte is total garbage.
1 Who would want to live right next to I-4
2 No non-residents want to visit what is basically an outdoor mall with the same old crappy chain stores

A lot of these places are going to be dead for a couple of years. Maybe they can be something other than retail. Medical, maybe

The last place I would put a business would be in a town center.

How about Waterford Lakes? They've built something like 8 or 9 new strip malls on Alafaya and Woodbury Road, and none of them are more than 50% occupied more than a year later.

In a couple years these are going to be empty eyesores. The former Albertson's shopping center at Alafaya and 50 already is one.

doesn't whining on these boards ever get old?

Uptown Altamonte sounds great on paper, but there are some serious flaws... first, when you only offer condos in the area of this "live, work, play" community, you are only going to attract a certain demographic... typically the type that can't afford a 200-300k 1/1. Make them affordable for people living on a single income, most notably young professionals, and they were surely fly off the shelf. Familys want a home and as far as I know, that is not an option.

Secondly, these large scale outdoor malls are generally frustrating to navigate. I can't speak for Altamonte, but Waterford Lakes is a nightmare... I dreaded going there.

Tired Commuter wrote:

How about Waterford Lakes? They've built something like 8 or 9 new strip malls on Alafaya and Woodbury Road, and none of them are more than 50% occupied more than a year later.
In a couple years these are going to be empty eyesores. The former Albertson's shopping center at Alafaya and 50 already is one.

Most likely because because the commercial market is going through the same type of bubble burst as the residential market.

In 2007 ~80M sqft of non-residential space was built with only about a 50% demand for it... we are on pace to complete almost 120M sqft of non residential space this year with only about a 15% demand for it.

Think about this... in ~10 or 15 years when the 20-somethings who grew up with computers as children start filling those executive level decision making management positions, telecommuting is going to become the norm and the demand for office space is going to collapse. In turn, those subshops, coffee shops and places who thrive on lunch-time business are going to suffer, too. You think the commercial centers are barorn now, just wait until this unfolds...

Tired Commuter wrote:

How about Waterford Lakes? They've built something like 8 or 9 new strip malls on Alafaya and Woodbury Road, and none of them are more than 50% occupied more than a year later.
In a couple years these are going to be empty eyesores. The former Albertson's shopping center at Alafaya and 50 already is one.

The former Albertson's is a ghost-town largely *because* of the Waterford Lakes shopping center(s)(and because it's right next to a Super Wal-Mart on the other side, which draws off customers as well). Let's be honest - when your anchor is Albertson's, you're in trouble. That stretch of Colonial, headed both east and west, lags behind north-south Alafaya economically. Head west from that corner and in just a couple of minutes you're in lower socioeconomics that don't exist on Alafaya.
The locations off Alafaya are problematic if only because of Location, Location, Location. There's plenty of residential areas behind Waterford and Woodbury, but there's more *traffic* on Alafaya. I'm one example: there's nothing on Woodbury that I can't find on Alafaya or in the main Waterford plaza, and thus no reason to go back there.
(That said, to be fair, I'll check out the university-merchandize shop - but without this article, I would have never known it's there.)

UF ALUM wrote:

Secondly, these large scale outdoor malls are generally frustrating to navigate. I can't speak for Altamonte, but Waterford Lakes is a nightmare... I dreaded going there.

I'm in Waterford a couple of times a week, easily, and IMO the only truly problematic area is the first intersection inside the main entrance off Alafaya - where nobody knows who's supposed to go first or where the other people are going. Beyond that, IMO there's nothing more than you see in any average shopping center. If you expect empty lanes and parking right in front of your store, that's just not realistic.

DriveBy Poster wrote:

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I'm in Waterford a couple of times a week, easily, and IMO the only truly problematic area is the first intersection inside the main entrance off Alafaya - where nobody knows who's supposed to go first or where the other people are going. Beyond that, IMO there's nothing more than you see in any average shopping center. If you expect empty lanes and parking right in front of your store, that's just not realistic.

THere are a few intersections just like it... not to mention the intersections with no proper signage to indicate right-of-way, the constant traffic that builds up in front of the target and backs up to that intersection, etc, etc, etc.
Go look and see how many times the OCSO has been called to the parking lot for minor accidents...

Not to mention it's not even close to being pedestrian freindly. You can't park at Traget and hop on over to Panera for lunch without jumping in your car because you'll be walking through the parking lot to get their.

Don't take my word for it, venture down to I-drive today or tomorrow and ask one of the thousands who are here for the icsc convention

Anyone ever realize were all being sucked by this fancy title? They try and make it fancy by calling it an "Open Air" mall. You know what that means? It means they dont have to pay to provide everyone with air conditioning. We have all been duped by a fancy name. People think its upscale because they spell "centre" a different way, oooooh must be fancy. Wake up people.

Wow.. people with no knowledge complaining about Waterford Lakes Town Center. It's only one of the busiest town centers in the country. The Target there has the 3rd highest sales in the entire country. Its the same for the other retailers. Any retailer with any clue would jump at the chance to go in there... which is why its always at 100% occupancy.

Brandon wrote:

Wow.. people with no knowledge complaining about Waterford Lakes Town Center. It's only one of the busiest town centers in the country. The Target there has the 3rd highest sales in the entire country. Its the same for the other retailers. Any retailer with any clue would jump at the chance to go in there... which is why its always at 100% occupancy.

don't suppose you can back that up .. we have a few people here that dispute what you say ... or maybe .. we're suppose to just take your word for it!

Brandon wrote:

Wow.. people with no knowledge complaining about Waterford Lakes Town Center. It's only one of the busiest town centers in the country. The Target there has the 3rd highest sales in the entire country. Its the same for the other retailers. Any retailer with any clue would jump at the chance to go in there... which is why its always at 100% occupancy.

Nobody is disputing the fact that Waterford Lakes is successful. It is. But, it was poorly planned. The idea behind an "open air" center is good, but it is not pedestrian friendly.

What they should have done perhaps, and I'm no expert, is to have made traffic flow and parking AROUND the center and not THROUGH it, like a regular enclosed mall (of course, without being enclosed)with the big box retailers on the outside, leaving the center pedestrian friendly, with businesses closer together (something along the lines of the Premium Outlets or Prime Outlets. This way, a walk from Target to Best Buy on opposite ends would be less dangerous and time consuming.

As far as Baldwin Park and Uptown, unfortunately, small specialty retailers are a dying breed. Even if you provide good service, people will (most of the time) rather go to a bog box or to the mall to buy stuff. In Uptown in specific, without the residents nearby, that project is as good as dead.

UF ALUM wrote:

Uptown Altamonte sounds great on paper, but there are some serious flaws... first, when you only offer condos in the area of this "live, work, play" community, you are only going to attract a certain demographic... typically the type that can't afford a 200-300k 1/1. Make them affordable for people living on a single income, most notably young professionals, and they were surely fly off the shelf. Familys want a home and as far as I know, that is not an option.
Secondly, these large scale outdoor malls are generally frustrating to navigate. I can't speak for Altamonte, but Waterford Lakes is a nightmare... I dreaded going there.

Lets not forget about the'n'infested apartment compexes across the street

funny wrote:

doesn't whining on these boards ever get old?

Ya gotta do something.

Brandon wrote:

Wow.. people with no knowledge complaining about Waterford Lakes Town Center. It's only one of the busiest town centers in the country. The Target there has the 3rd highest sales in the entire country. Its the same for the other retailers. Any retailer with any clue would jump at the chance to go in there... which is why its always at 100% occupancy.

Nobody disputed its success. It's a monster and I believe that's the flaw. It's success is due to the high population that surrounds it... but notice that they are mostly homes... not condos. SOmething that Uptown doesn't have. People want houses.

Brandon wrote:

Wow.. people with no knowledge complaining about Waterford Lakes Town Center. It's only one of the busiest town centers in the country. The Target there has the 3rd highest sales in the entire country. Its the same for the other retailers. Any retailer with any clue would jump at the chance to go in there... which is why its always at 100% occupancy.

PS, smarty... take a walk to west waterford lakes and you'll find plenty of vancant space. Maybe you should do a little homework befor eyou going proclaiming everyone else to be fools... pot.

thefountainsmarketplace.com ,
Another Bull!!!

The Local Racist wrote:

<quoted text>
PS, smarty... take a walk to west waterford lakes and you'll find plenty of vancant space. Maybe you should do a little homework befor eyou going proclaiming everyone else to be fools... pot.

Actually that's not part of Waterford Lakes Town Center. This article was focused on the success or lack thereof of town centers. I simply pointed out that Waterford Lakes Town Center is easily one of the most successfull in the country. Whether you like the layout or not, it has a large theater and the successfull mix of big box stores and smaller stores people want.

Most people that live in east Orlando have learned how to navigate the center without difficulty.