Sun Country Tells Workers It May Shut Down Dec. 1

This could be a bad or a good deal for the employee's. the bad is they shut down and never bounce back. the Good is that southwest went public they will be starting service in minneapolis, all this took place after suncountry told it's employee's they would have to take a pay cut and now possible shut down. the purchase of suncoutry would give southwest a good standing power in minneapolis the same aircraft plus the gate space plus employee's already in place?? just remember you heard it here first.

Sorry, but we will not be buying Sun Country. Not going to happen...do not need to....just remember you heard it here first.

Southwest is not in the business of saving jobs, it is in the business of transportation.

To be honest, why would they want to buy Sun Country and rebadge its assets?

I hear so many people down Wal*Mart and it's practices, yet the Wal*Mart of the air is given a free pass.

I am so sorry to say but Sun Country is about to join the ranks of Air Florida, Eastern, Eos, Florida Express, TWA, Pan AM, Kiwi or hell, you get the picture.

Please don't think I am anti Southwest or pro demise for Sun Country, however this is just the way it is in the industry.

This is a tough industry and due to costs beyond most carriers control such as fuel and greedy Pilots whom want to make lots of money and only work part time hours per month.

Experienced Flyer wrote:

This is a tough industry and due to costs beyond most carriers control such as fuel and greedy Pilots whom want to make lots of money and only work part time hours per month.

Time out. That one of the more stupid responses I have read in awhile. Pilots make less in 2008 dollars than they did in 1978. Tell the regional pilot that starts out making $25K a year he is making a lot of money. Sure some of us make well over $200K a year but that comes with a lot of responsiblity and it is called paying your dues.
I bet you have no problem with the doctor saving your life making over $200K. Well consider pilots saving your life every time you land safely from a flight. Remember we are the ones not letting a 150,000 lb metal object traveling at fast speeds from crashing into the ground killing you. Change the perspective a little. That just pisses me off.
Working part-time hours. You want a tired pilot flying your plane..lacking judgment because they just want to go to bed. You choose.

737 pilot wrote:

<quoted text>
Time out. That one of the more stupid responses I have read in awhile. Pilots make less in 2008 dollars than they did in 1978. Tell the regional pilot that starts out making $25K a year he is making a lot of money. Sure some of us make well over $200K a year but that comes with a lot of responsiblity and it is called paying your dues.
I bet you have no problem with the doctor saving your life making over $200K. Well consider pilots saving your life every time you land safely from a flight. Remember we are the ones not letting a 150,000 lb metal object traveling at fast speeds from crashing into the ground killing you. Change the perspective a little. That just pisses me off.
Working part-time hours. You want a tired pilot flying your plane..lacking judgment because they just want to go to bed. You choose.

Well one main reasons pilot wages have dropped so much between 1978 and 2008 is because of the likes of SWA. They were, and still are the cancer of the airline industry. When you start making comments, think of what caused those things to happen. When you look back at the days when pilots, and especially the rest of the employees of airlines, made livable wage was before SWA came along with all their koolaid and pretty much destroyed an industry.

SWA had nothing to do w/other airlines problems, greedy execs, stupid mang,dumb contracts, out sourcing jobs,etc, 737 pilot was NOT across the table at YOUR contract talks, YOU were,SWA is just smart, deal with it! The kool-aid taste pretty good right now, washes down the filet mignon really nice, mean while all the x-big wigs with the GOLDEN PARACHUTES are STILL, no doubt washing theirs down with champagne, what are you CHOKING yours down with Rudy??? P.S. Loved that movie about you at Notre Dame. Peace.

Last time i checked SWA had the highest paid pilots in the industry.

RUDY wrote:

<quoted text>
Well one main reasons pilot wages have dropped so much between 1978 and 2008 is because of the likes of SWA. They were, and still are the cancer of the airline industry. When you start making comments, think of what caused those things to happen. When you look back at the days when pilots, and especially the rest of the employees of airlines, made livable wage was before SWA came along with all their koolaid and pretty much destroyed an industry.

717foFL wrote:

Last time i checked SWA had the highest paid pilots in the industry.<quoted text>

How about the industry as a whole? In 1978, SWA were the lowest paid pilots in the industry. Now after helping create the wave of bankruptcies in the industry, they are the highest paid. SWA pilots are in, and have been in negoteations for over 2 years, for a new contract. What do you think a 64% load factor does for their bargining position?

hwystar wrote:

SWA had nothing to do w/other airlines problems, greedy execs, stupid mang,dumb contracts, out sourcing jobs,etc, 737 pilot was NOT across the table at YOUR contract talks, YOU were,SWA is just smart, deal with it! The kool-aid taste pretty good right now, washes down the filet mignon really nice, mean while all the x-big wigs with the GOLDEN PARACHUTES are STILL, no doubt washing theirs down with champagne, what are you CHOKING yours down with Rudy??? P.S. Loved that movie about you at Notre Dame. Peace.

It's kind of funny that the dumb contracts you are referring to only absorbed about a 10% realization of the real money that was lost compared to the real money of 1978. I am doing fine washing down my hamburger with a nice cold beer knowing I did not sell out an industry.

Have a good weekend.

I don't know how they created the "wave" rudy, and their paid higher cause they earn it,rudy, don't you get it rudy??? GREED has cause all the problems, all those "bonuses" the FAT CATS get, and all the crumbs every one else gets???? ask the AMR troops,I'm sure they're all happy w/their mngmt! SWA didn't sell out the industry,BIG WIGS sold it!!!! DUMD BIG WIGS at that! But smart enough to get all the $$$$$$ P.S. Did all those players really lv. their jerseys on the coaches desk??? just askin'. Peace.

hwystar wrote:

I don't know how they created the "wave" rudy, and their paid higher cause they earn it,rudy, don't you get it rudy??? GREED has cause all the problems, all those "bonuses" the FAT CATS get, and all the crumbs every one else gets???? ask the AMR troops,I'm sure they're all happy w/their mngmt! SWA didn't sell out the industry,BIG WIGS sold it!!!! DUMD BIG WIGS at that! But smart enough to get all the $$$$$$ P.S. Did all those players really lv. their jerseys on the coaches desk??? just askin'. Peace.

The "wave" was created by finding people that would work for less than industry standard. By doing so it undercut all the other carriers. This gave them a niche to reduce the entire industry down to what SWA paid. It also put the entire industry at a competitive disadvantage in that SWA did not offer a pension. So now most the major carriers have eliminated that disadvantage through bankruptcy, and eliminated their pensions. About the only advantage SWA has over most carriers now is their fuel hedges. That will not last forever.
All employees are working harder and more productive in an effort to fairly compete with the likes of SWA. So in essence, we all work harder for less money.
Thanks

Rudy, ALL carriers had the ability to hedge fuel, they either did it or didn't do it well enough, thats not SWA's fault, SWA has always done more w/less,thats the way its done, the"industry" set the standard, it was set way before SWA came along, and thats how most airlines got in trouble,they started paying more than they took in, and when they wanted to cut back $$$$, ranks said "NO", and I don't blame them, esp when FAT CATS take home big $$$ in bonuses, I don't know who you work for Rudy, but nobody made you work there, you had a choice, you work for company A who has bad managment and made poor choices, some work for company B who did the opposite, you say all workers are working HARDER to compete, thats where your already beat, SWA works SMARTER not harder, no, the hedges wont last forever, but as of yesterday SWA has 6 billion cash on hand, w/85% to cover Fuel hedge positions, and an un-used 600 million line of credit, sitting better than most, if, as YOU said " all emps. are working harder and more productive in an effort to compete w/SWA " your problems are your fault, so your saying you were lazy and less produtive before SWA???......your welcome.

Experienced Flyer wrote:

This is a tough industry and due to costs beyond most carriers control such as fuel and greedy Pilots whom want to make lots of money and only work part time hours per month.

Hears the deal for you uneducated worker bee's. If you have a bad day at work nothing much happens. If I have a bad day at work your family dies. Got it . Pilots do not need anybody at an airline for any reason, but guess what unless you know how to fly your going nowhere.. You should rethink your stupidity. Take a train, but then again they crash alot and never leave the ground. Hmm...

Experienced Flyer wrote:

This is a tough industry and due to costs beyond most carriers control such as fuel and greedy Pilots whom want to make lots of money and only work part time hours per month.

No one works part time hours until you have years and years under your belt giving up holidays weekends, family get togethers, funerals and graduations etc.

Say for most flight attendants too.

RUDY wrote:

<quoted text>
Well one main reasons pilot wages have dropped so much between 1978 and 2008 is because of the likes of SWA. They were, and still are the cancer of the airline industry. When you start making comments, think of what caused those things to happen. When you look back at the days when pilots, and especially the rest of the employees of airlines, made livable wage was before SWA came along with all their koolaid and pretty much destroyed an industry.

Thanks, Rudy, for proving you don't need to know what you're talking about to be able to post on the internet. You keep flying Delta, and letting them treat you like crap, while SWA keeps rolling in the money, paying the flight attendants the highest amount in the industry while having the most heavily unionized workforce in the airline industry. Maybe it's because of brilliant management, a committed workforce, and the courage to see a radical new idea through.

Btw, do you hate Thomas Edison for putting all those poor candlemakers out of work?

and secondly this is more about Petters

and not fuel costs, and wages.....

Petters was arrested for crookedness.....much like the rest of Wall Street banking and hedge funds need to be arrested too for theft and deceitful practices, and outright robbery of their shareholders

Stew wrote:

<quoted text>
Thanks, Rudy, for proving you don't need to know what you're talking about to be able to post on the internet. You keep flying Delta, and letting them treat you like crap, while SWA keeps rolling in the money, paying the flight attendants the highest amount in the industry while having the most heavily unionized workforce in the airline industry. Maybe it's because of brilliant management, a committed workforce, and the courage to see a radical new idea through.
Btw, do you hate Thomas Edison for putting all those poor candlemakers out of work?

Well as I understand it, the flight attendants and the pilots are in negotiations at SWA. How do you think a 64% load factor last month will affect your bargaining position. Just because life is good right now does not guarantee your future. Look at the rest of the industry for that illustration.

I did not bring up this topix, 737 pilot did. The down fall of all our wages started when the low cost carriers undercut the industry standard. The only reason SWA has not cut wages and work rules is because of the advantage they have had with fuel hedges. It will not last forever. Good luck with your new contract.

717foFL wrote:

Last time i checked SWA had the highest paid pilots in the industry.<quoted text>

I know for a fact that 777 and for that matter 767 pilots make much more money than a 737 Southwest pilot and they work a lot fewer block hours to do it!!!

Pay= money per actual hour flown.
Southwest is not doing to well when you consider duty and trip rigs and the amount of hard hours that southwest pilots fly to get their salary.

John wrote:

<quoted text>
I know for a fact that 777 and for that matter 767 pilots make much more money than a 737 Southwest pilot and they work a lot fewer block hours to do it!!!
Pay= money per actual hour flown.
Southwest is not doing to well when you consider duty and trip rigs and the amount of hard hours that southwest pilots fly to get their salary.

Not sure where you get that info. Check out airlinepilotcentral.com and look up the pay rates....then do the math...Yes, a 777 Captain should make more than a 737 one but that is not the case. sorry