Situation dire for Ford, GM

The Big Three should admit they are done and try to leave the industrial scene with dignity. They have created their own demise. Why drag out the agony with false hopes of some kind of a future for Detroit? The future belongs to corporations that act honestly and with integrity, serving their customers and building a good work environment for their employees. We have to look to the future, not to a decadent industrial past.

Buy American! This is the problem with Americans today. Ford is not done! If you read consumer reports you will see that Ford has one of the safest line ups of vehicles on the road today! Have you test drove one? JD Powers ranks Ford right next to or better than Toyota now. If you are going to speak please speak with KNOWLEDGE!

Savage Factory wrote:

The Big Three should admit they are done and try to leave the industrial scene with dignity. They have created their own demise. Why drag out the agony with false hopes of some kind of a future for Detroit? The future belongs to corporations that act honestly and with integrity, serving their customers and building a good work environment for their employees. We have to look to the future, not to a decadent industrial past.

Audrey wrote:

Buy American! This is the problem with Americans today. Ford is not done! If you read consumer reports you will see that Ford has one of the safest line ups of vehicles on the road today! Have you test drove one? JD Powers ranks Ford right next to or better than Toyota now. If you are going to speak please speak with KNOWLEDGE!<quoted text>

O.K. Here is some knowledge. Ford has been shutting down plants and laying off people for at least three years. Toyota has been building plants in the U.S. and hiring Americans for at least 15 years. Why? Because the American people have no faith or trust in Ford, now matter what JD Powers says. Ford built the worse cars on this continent for 30 years. Why? Because they did not have to have good quality. There was no other choice but junk from the Big Three. Then VW, Toyota, Nissan showed up and gave us choices. Ford scrambled to improve quality, including begging Toyota to show them how to build good quality. After many years Ford is now equal to Toyota. NOW equal? Why haven't they been equal or better all along? You can only fool the American people for so long. They no faith or trust in Ford, no matter what surveys are published. Let the Big Three die with dignity. Within 18 months all of them will be bankrupt or merged with stronger companies, such as the World Standard in the auto industy: Toyota. Good ridance. Before you mouth off, do some research.

Safe ? Who the hell cares about safety of the vehicle. Ask anyone when they buy a new vehicle, what are they looking for - Not safety my friend.

It's features, fuel economy, style, quality, fit and finishes, colors, reliability record.

The Big 3 do not have these and that is why they are dying.

I totally agree with you my friend. I do support buying American made products - only if they are good quality product.

I work too hard for my money, I am not going to waste it on a products that I know I am not going to be happy down the road.

Sorry, but Ford, GM, Chrysler quality is not up to par with Toyota or Honda, not even Korean made vehicles. May be Mitsubishi.

the employees at the GM factory in Jansville can thank all the morons who somehow have have been convinced that japonise vehicles are better,consumer reports mag.i belive is one influance, for losing their jobs. keep voting republican & noyhing will change

obveisly John doesn't work for GM or F or any of the supliers

bullet wrote:

the employees at the GM factory in Jansville can thank all the morons who somehow have have been convinced that japonise vehicles are better,consumer reports mag.i belive is one influance, for losing their jobs. keep voting republican & noyhing will change

I believe that we should purchase ONLY American made vehicles. For example, a Toyota made in Georgetown, KY by American workers. Or a Honda, made in Marysville, Ohio, by American workers. Or, possibly, wait until the hugh new Honda plant is finished in Greensburg, Indiana, that will employ 3,000 Americans in high paying jobs with full benefits, and buy one of the first vehicles off the line. Or if you are a high end type of guy, purchase a Mercedes, made by American workers in South Carolina. Why settle for something made by the very un-American Big Three, which have abandoned American workers so they can exploit low wage people in Mexico, Turkey, and China? Be a true American. Buy an American made car. Don't betray the American labor movement by purchasing ANYTHING from the Big Three.

Savage Factory wrote:

<quoted text>
I believe that we should purchase ONLY American made vehicles. For example, a Toyota made in Georgetown, KY by American workers. Or a Honda, made in Marysville, Ohio, by American workers. Or, possibly, wait until the hugh new Honda plant is finished in Greensburg, Indiana, that will employ 3,000 Americans in high paying jobs with full benefits, and buy one of the first vehicles off the line. Or if you are a high end type of guy, purchase a Mercedes, made by American workers in South Carolina. Why settle for something made by the very un-American Big Three, which have abandoned American workers so they can exploit low wage people in Mexico, Turkey, and China? Be a true American. Buy an American made car. Don't betray the American labor movement by purchasing ANYTHING from the Big Three.

So you've an axe to grind with organized labor. You wouldn't be the first. The foreign-branded domestically-produced vehicles are a result of incentives given by municipal, state and federal sources. They were paid to come here and undercut domestic labor. As in the so-called Right To Work states. Another blow to anyone laboring here. The transplants model the wages of the Detroit 3 automakers. As those wages and benefits become hollowed out, so will the wages paid by the transplant manufacturers. The domino effect.

Nostromo wrote:

<quoted text>
So you've an axe to grind with organized labor. You wouldn't be the first. The foreign-branded domestically-produced vehicles are a result of incentives given by municipal, state and federal sources. They were paid to come here and undercut domestic labor. As in the so-called Right To Work states. Another blow to anyone laboring here. The transplants model the wages of the Detroit 3 automakers. As those wages and benefits become hollowed out, so will the wages paid by the transplant manufacturers. The domino effect.

You are correct in saying that counties, states, and the fed give incentives for locating auto plants. But you do not tell the whole story. Those same incentives are available to the Big Three. Case in point: Clermont County, Ohio, which gave free land, a 20 year tax abatement, and millions in job training funds to Ford Motor to locate the Batavia Transmission Plant in Ohio. This plant was billed as the most advanced auto manufacturing plant in the world, and would produce the most gas efficient, best quality front wheel drive transmission on planet earth. That was 21 years ago. What is it now? A vacant building with weeds growing up through the tarmac, 1800 UAW workers looking for other jobs, and Clermont County and the state of Ohio left holding the bag for hundreds of millions of dollars.

Nostromo wrote:

<quoted text>
So you've an axe to grind with organized labor. You wouldn't be the first. The foreign-branded domestically-produced vehicles are a result of incentives given by municipal, state and federal sources. They were paid to come here and undercut domestic labor. As in the so-called Right To Work states. Another blow to anyone laboring here. The transplants model the wages of the Detroit 3 automakers. As those wages and benefits become hollowed out, so will the wages paid by the transplant manufacturers. The domino effect.

One might ask why this happened. My answer is two fold. First, you cannot give hired thugs a necktie, call them managers, and put them in charge of high tech equipment and skilled operators. Secondly, Ford has always, for 100 years, exploited people and cheated customers. Another case in point. Honda Motor Company, given exactly the same incentives by Ohio built a plant in Marysville. That plant has been expanded three times in 21 years, has never had a layoff, pays higher wages and benefits than Ford Motor Company, and has, three times, voted down unionization attempts. What we have here is an old line, exploitative corporation (Ford) trying to use the same techniques it used 100 years ago, and they don't work any more. Ford cannot compete on the level playing field of the 21st century auto market, and will soon be sent to the ash bin of American Industrial History.

Savage Factory wrote:

<quoted text>
One might ask why this happened. My answer is two fold. First, you cannot give hired thugs a necktie, call them managers, and put them in charge of high tech equipment and skilled operators. Secondly, Ford has always, for 100 years, exploited people and cheated customers. Another case in point. Honda Motor Company, given exactly the same incentives by Ohio built a plant in Marysville. That plant has been expanded three times in 21 years, has never had a layoff, pays higher wages and benefits than Ford Motor Company, and has, three times, voted down unionization attempts. What we have here is an old line, exploitative corporation (Ford) trying to use the same techniques it used 100 years ago, and they don't work any more. Ford cannot compete on the level playing field of the 21st century auto market, and will soon be sent to the ash bin of American Industrial History.

The pendulum sweeps in both directions. Right now it's coming full to the other side of homegrown industry. The imports are still flowing in to this country, but more slowly as we re-tune the failed global economy. America works best when we build, buy and spend here. Foreign players want a piece of this, then they'll have to pay-to-play.

Still on hear bashing Ford. You really need a girl friend you are all over this forum Blaa blaa blaa Ford is so Evil and Toyota is so Wonderful. Toyota looks at its workers as machines theye are no better than any other automaker. Intrepid shut you down on another topic forum . and here you are still spouting your bullshit. You got fired from Ford Take it like a man and get over it.

In my 20 years of driving, I have owned many vehicles... 4 Ford Mustangs, 1 brand new Chevy Iroc, 1 new Ford Exploder, er, I mean Explorer, 1 Ford F-150, 1 new model Chev Silverado... among those a few Honda Civic (Si), Toyota Celica, a Honda Prelude and now a Toyota Double Cab 4X4. I always took great care of my vehicles. I never abused any of them. The American built crap had many problems, such as a computer failure at 21,000km (Explorer), Oil burning Iroc at 15,000km, Short in the steering column of the Iroc that left me stranded in a busy intersection (Iroc)... Front end part failures in the Explorer at around 25000km, rust through the rear wheel wells of my '99 Silverado, stumbling engine and wiring problems in the fuse box of the Silverado, rear end howling in a new Ford Mustang (not from spinning tires either!). There were so many other problems and poor quality control issues that I had. As a kid I loved American vehicles, and I gave American manufacturers every chance for redemption, but it only cost me in repair bills and low resale value in the end. The Japanese cars were boring to look at in the beginning, but the japanese vehicles are much better looking now! My Hondas and Toyotas have always run well, been efficient on fuel and have been very reliable. I have owned my '07 Toyota truck for a year and a half, and no problems whatsoever. I pull a 26 foot trailer with it too. I haven't had to fight and argue with any American dealership for repairs or warranty coverage. I remember going to my local Ford dealership to attempt to trade in my wifes crappy 2001 Ford Windstar on a 1999 Honda Odyssey. The Honda had about 170,000 miles on it, the Windstar had only about 73,000km. The Windstar had been fully serviced through its easy life, but the tranny was starting to slip, and the check engine light was always on due to sensor failures (although we did repair the sensors, they kept failing). I offered them our van plus $5000. The salesman told me "This is a Ford, you know, you can't expect to get much on a trade against a Honda". Then the sales manager laughed out loud when my salesman told him my offer!. I left and bought my wife a brand new Toyota Sienna. Maybe the owner of my local Ford dealership can get a job polishing the new Toyotas coming out next year!

if you idiots like sleeping with the japs so much get out of america and move over there.if you are not going to support the american economy then get out. all9664 toyota profits go over seas dumba@@es

us built wrote:

if you idiots like sleeping with the japs so much get out of america and move over there.if you are not going to support the american economy then get out. all9664 toyota profits go over seas dumba@@es

Now, now US Built. Our products produced here need to stand or fall on their own merits. Many of 'em do, especially our (GM's) pickup trucks. No excuses need be made for them. I'm confident that once GM/Chrysler becomes a reality, that the vision which brought these trucks, the Volt, the Malibu, G6 and many others will see GM prosper going down the road. These are hard times facing the middle-class. Grittier than any I've seen in my 35 years in the Industry. Be patient, shrewd and ready for the recovery when it begins. We're about half-way through a very low point in the action. Expect to see the clouds begin to part late next year. This much I know.

us built wrote:

if you idiots like sleeping with the japs so much get out of america and move over there.if you are not going to support the american economy then get out. all9664 toyota profits go over seas dumba@@es

My last day at Ford is the 24th. I start at Honda in Greensburg, Indiana the following Monday. I support the American economy, as does the other 2999 Americans who work at the new Greensburg plant. I support our economy by purchasing cars made in America - Hondas. Oh, also, I own Honda stock, as does my mutual fund, and all those profits go back to me and I spend them in Ohio and Indiana, just like the other 18,000 Americans in Ohio, Kentucky, and Indiana that work for Honda and Toyota. I spent 16 miserable years working at Ford, and I consider them to be years thrown away. If you think Honda profits go to Japan, you are wrong.I bought Ford stock through the stock purchase plant for 14 years. My average cost was $11.45. I dumped it all last week at $2.25. Oh, yea, that supports the American economy all right.

you are blind and a moron besides get out of the country you wannabe commie

Nostromo wrote:

<quoted text>
The pendulum sweeps in both directions. Right now it's coming full to the other side of homegrown industry. The imports are still flowing in to this country, but more slowly as we re-tune the failed global economy. America works best when we build, buy and spend here. Foreign players want a piece of this, then they'll have to pay-to-play.

If America works best when we build, buy, and spend here, then why is Ford shutting down plants, laying off people, even as they expand overseas? Are you saying the nasty Japs want to sell us cars, and that is bad, but Ford wants to build and sell cars in foreign countries, which definitely steals our jobs and sends our money overseas, and that is good? Call me crazy, but it sounds like you are talking out of both sides of your mouth.If it is bad for us to buy foreign cars, then why is it not bad for Ford to build and sell cars overseas, or am I missing something? If foreigners have to pay to play, then is Ford paying to play over there, which is sending our money over there? Help me out here. I am totally confused.

Savage Factory wrote:

<quoted text>
If America works best when we build, buy, and spend here, then why is Ford shutting down plants, laying off people, even as they expand overseas? Are you saying the nasty Japs want to sell us cars, and that is bad, but Ford wants to build and sell cars in foreign countries, which definitely steals our jobs and sends our money overseas, and that is good? Call me crazy, but it sounds like you are talking out of both sides of your mouth.If it is bad for us to buy foreign cars, then why is it not bad for Ford to build and sell cars overseas, or am I missing something? If foreigners have to pay to play, then is Ford paying to play over there, which is sending our money over there? Help me out here. I am totally confused.

You are crazy. What is wrong with Ford selling cars in other countries? Ford's efforts are self-sustaining overseas. Crazy Man, don't post here, you are out of your depth.