Honda Civic - Credit: Honda

plopsdad wrote:

<quoted text>How would it hurt anyone, so the laws of this country mean nothing to you? All those legal immigrants who respected our country enough to respect our laws and wait mean nothing to you? Alot of legal immigrants are not happy one bit about this but are all but shouted down from the illegal side.Im not in for giving away the rights of this country and everything else it offers just because someone or some group marches in our streets demanding rights for breaking our laws. And it doesnt fix the problem, this situation will just repeat again unless the problem is fixed, so again, why legalize when it doesnt fix the problem?

The laws do mean a lot to me. I am not in favor of amnesty. I have always been in favor of rounding up all the illegals and shipping them back to wherever they came from. but, from a financial viewpoint, that would be a huge waste of money. You are correct; we need to start upholding the laws. Anyone who hires an illegal should be punished. Schools and hospitals should not be required to service illegal immigrants. Anyone who can not prove they are here legally and truly looking for work should not get a handout. Do you really think the powers that be are going to start making sure the laws are enforced? I don't. Especially not with all the politically correct BS that goes on in our country.'We' don't want to offend anyone so we let everyone suck us dry. Now we have people who are so against illegal immigrants that they are willing to kill anyone who has an Hispanic last name. We are not electing official who have the balls to do what is right. We voted for change, but I will bet dollars to donuts that we will have the same, if not worse, illegal immigration problem next year. So, start hitting them where it hurts. It might affect some legal citizens, but if we totally reform the welfare system, we might see some change. IMO, we should not grant amnesty and we should make it so a person has to prove they are a legal citizen to receive benefits. Make it mandatory for schools and hospitals to report illegals to ICE. Quit pandering to the bleeding heart liberals. But, rounding up all the illegals and shipping them back is a waste of money. They will just come back over as long as they know America will keep on doing what we've been doing.
It is a tough situation. Until we get leaders with some balls, we will never get out of it. No matter how hard we work, or how much we scrimp. The bleeding hearts will make sure the illegals are taken care of at the expense of the American workers.

Fed Up in NM wrote:

<quoted text>The laws do mean a lot to me. I am not in favor of amnesty. I have always been in favor of rounding up all the illegals and shipping them back to wherever they came from. but, from a financial viewpoint, that would be a huge waste of money.

enforce the laws, require a citizenship check for any and all social services and i think the need to round up and deport will not be needed.

Fed Up in NM wrote:

<quoted text>The laws do mean a lot to me. I am not in favor of amnesty. I have always been in favor of rounding up all the illegals and shipping them back to wherever they came from. but, from a financial viewpoint, that would be a huge waste of money. You are correct; we need to start upholding the laws. Anyone who hires an illegal should be punished. Schools and hospitals should not be required to service illegal immigrants. Anyone who can not prove they are here legally and truly looking for work should not get a handout. Do you really think the powers that be are going to start making sure the laws are enforced? I don't. Especially not with all the politically correct BS that goes on in our country.'We' don't want to offend anyone so we let everyone suck us dry. Now we have people who are so against illegal immigrants that they are willing to kill anyone who has an Hispanic last name. We are not electing official who have the balls to do what is right. We voted for change, but I will bet dollars to donuts that we will have the same, if not worse, illegal immigration problem next year. So, start hitting them where it hurts. It might affect some legal citizens, but if we totally reform the welfare system, we might see some change. IMO, we should not grant amnesty and we should make it so a person has to prove they are a legal citizen to receive benefits. Make it mandatory for schools and hospitals to report illegals to ICE. Quit pandering to the bleeding heart liberals. But, rounding up all the illegals and shipping them back is a waste of money. They will just come back over as long as they know America will keep on doing what we've been doing.
It is a tough situation. Until we get leaders with some balls, we will never get out of it. No matter how hard we work, or how much we scrimp. The bleeding hearts will make sure the illegals are taken care of at the expense of the American workers.

Im sorry, but we will just have to agree to disagree. I agree with some of what you say, but i dont believe what you have said will do anything worth talking about in reducing or fixing the problem. Most companies would continue paying fines if it meant the supply of cheap labor is not effected. As i see it, No automatic citizenship for children of illegal aliens born on U.S soil. Secondly, jail time for employers who get caught hiring or employing illegals on the second time.Also criminal charges against people caught in the country illegally. Continue workplace raids.Cut all benefits to all non citizens .Secure the border.Not with Technology, with people.

bob wrote:

<quoted text>
enforce the laws, require a citizenship check for any and all social services and i think the need to round up and deport will not be needed.

I completely agree. Until that happens, we will always have a problem.

plopsdad wrote:

<quoted text>Im sorry, but we will just have to agree to disagree. I agree with some of what you say, but i dont believe what you have said will do anything worth talking about in reducing or fixing the problem. Most companies would continue paying fines if it meant the supply of cheap labor is not effected. As i see it, No automatic citizenship for children of illegal aliens born on U.S soil. Secondly, jail time for employers who get caught hiring or employing illegals on the second time.Also criminal charges against people caught in the country illegally. Continue workplace raids.Cut all benefits to all non citizens .Secure the border.Not with Technology, with people.

I agree with you. Trust me, I do. but until we fix the handouts they get, they will not go away. Until there is a serious penalty for aiding and abetting illegals, there will be no reason not to hire them. This country caters to illegals like no other country in the world. Then we cry about being overrun with them.
We may disagree on how it's done, but we agree that something needs to be done. We also agree that drastic measures are called for. I just don't want to spend any more money than we already have. Don't ship them back, make them want to go back. In the meantime, we might get rid of a bunch of welfare queens and kings who are legal citizens.

Fed Up in NM wrote:

<quoted text>I agree with you. Trust me, I do. but until we fix the handouts they get, they will not go away. Until there is a serious penalty for aiding and abetting illegals, there will be no reason not to hire them. This country caters to illegals like no other country in the world. Then we cry about being overrun with them.
We may disagree on how it's done, but we agree that something needs to be done. We also agree that drastic measures are called for. I just don't want to spend any more money than we already have. Don't ship them back, make them want to go back. In the meantime, we might get rid of a bunch of welfare queens and kings who are legal citizens.

The businesses want them,some on both political parties want them, some dont , the citizens dont. The winner gets the country the way they want. The businesses and parties dont want a country, they want a NAU. Good Night.

plopsdad wrote:

<quoted text>The businesses want them,some on both political parties want them, some dont , the citizens dont. The winner gets the country the way they want. The businesses and parties dont want a country, they want a NAU. Good Night.

Which is why we need to start voting smarter. Until that happens, we may as well get used to our tax dollars going to feed the illegals. Have a great week!

Fed Up in NM wrote:

<quoted text>The laws do mean a lot to me. I am not in favor of amnesty. I have always been in favor of rounding up all the illegals and shipping them back to wherever they came from. but, from a financial viewpoint, that would be a huge waste of money. You are correct; we need to start upholding the laws. Anyone who hires an illegal should be punished. Schools and hospitals should not be required to service illegal immigrants. Anyone who can not prove they are here legally and truly looking for work should not get a handout. Do you really think the powers that be are going to start making sure the laws are enforced? I don't. Especially not with all the politically correct BS that goes on in our country.'We' don't want to offend anyone so we let everyone suck us dry. Now we have people who are so against illegal immigrants that they are willing to kill anyone who has an Hispanic last name. We are not electing official who have the balls to do what is right. We voted for change, but I will bet dollars to donuts that we will have the same, if not worse, illegal immigration problem next year. So, start hitting them where it hurts. It might affect some legal citizens, but if we totally reform the welfare system, we might see some change. IMO, we should not grant amnesty and we should make it so a person has to prove they are a legal citizen to receive benefits. Make it mandatory for schools and hospitals to report illegals to ICE. Quit pandering to the bleeding heart liberals. But, rounding up all the illegals and shipping them back is a waste of money. They will just come back over as long as they know America will keep on doing what we've been doing.
It is a tough situation. Until we get leaders with some balls, we will never get out of it. No matter how hard we work, or how much we scrimp. The bleeding hearts will make sure the illegals are taken care of at the expense of the American workers.

This issue needs to be dealt with from all angles at once. Leave no stone unturned and no hole to hide in.

I see no reason we should not round them up and send them home. The wall needs to be built, services need to be cut, employment denied, illegal employers need to be held accountable, raids need to continue and increase and status verification needs to be as normal as checking a drivers license on a traffic stop. Self deportation will then become the driving force and we will no longer be picking up the tab for it or all of the services that they are currently receiving. If everything is done at once and simultaneously I think the incoming would be down to a trickle in 6-8 months and biggest portion that are here would be gone in two years. If we shut down the rides the crowds will leave.

No stats to back me up, just what I think.

Fed Up in NM wrote:

<quoted text>Which is why we need to start voting smarter. Until that happens, we may as well get used to our tax dollars going to feed the illegals. Have a great week!

I did not see an option on the last election for people I felt good about, particularly on this issue. I do not believe our voices are being heard over the special interest groups. We need to be louder and more demanding – just like La Raza. Show them OUR masses.

Yaolt wrote:

Here’s a bit of what Obama had to say:“Yes, they broke the law. And we should not excuse that. We should require them to pay a fine, learn English, and go to the back of the line for citizenship - behind those who came here legally. But we cannot - and should not - deport 12 million people.”
Obama went on to say:“That's why we need to offer those who are willing to make amends a pathway to citizenship. That way, we can reconcile our values as both a nation of immigrants and a nation of laws.”
sounds good to me :)

Grant amnesty to an illiterate woman and her 4 kids;fine,we'll raise YOUR taxes to support all five.

do something wrote:

<quoted text>
This issue needs to be dealt with from all angles at once. Leave no stone unturned and no hole to hide in.
I see no reason we should not round them up and send them home. The wall needs to be built, services need to be cut, employment denied, illegal employers need to be held accountable, raids need to continue and increase and status verification needs to be as normal as checking a drivers license on a traffic stop. Self deportation will then become the driving force and we will no longer be picking up the tab for it or all of the services that they are currently receiving. If everything is done at once and simultaneously I think the incoming would be down to a trickle in 6-8 months and biggest portion that are here would be gone in two years. If we shut down the rides the crowds will leave.
No stats to back me up, just what I think.

I think you do have stats. But nothing concret. Look whats been happing, the labor pool is drying up quickly, espically in construction jobs with housing down and we than start to hear reports that illegals are moving back home. Arizona's new stricker laws went into effect and we hear they are moving to other states or leaving. Illegal crossings in areas with new fence is are down , backed up by monthly BP station capture reports in those area. I think the stats and proof are taking shape now.

Ms Taletha wrote:

<quoted text>
But I question the value of rewarding criminal behavior with amnesty and citizenship. What about those folks who have done things legally and waited their turn in line to become citizens?

EXACTLY!!! My husband came here legally from England and paid all of those govt imposed fees, waited the requisite number of years to become a resident alien, soon to be a US citizen. I had to vouch I could support him and if I died, that I had enough life insurance so that he would not need govt assistance. Will the govt also require this of those whom they give amnesty? I tend to doubt it.

Ms Taletha wrote:

<quoted text>
Im on the right track now, ain't I B?
A month now....joy fills my heart! I try to spread the feeling wherever I go!
Why? Because slammed shut the door on animosities!

Hi Tally! I'm glad to see you're keeping the debate going with wiser methods. You've made some fantastic points. I'll drop you an email later today! Take care... your adopted mom. ;-)

plopsdad wrote:

<quoted text>That's like saying the robber has no personal responsibility in all this.And your right, the gov may want them , but the legal citizens spoke up and will speak up again.A little FYI for you, when the '86 amnesty went down, it was actually 2 parts, legalize and secure the border. After the signing and legalizing came time to secure the border. The congress at that time,controlled by the dems, voted down every border enforcement measure. They pulled a fast one that time, but we are not going to let them do it again.

How you gonna stop Pelosi, Reid & Obama from doing anything they want, or, dont want to do? All three branches of gov. are now owned by democrats. You think they are going to take any of your views about border security into consideration? Think again.
Bet the illegals will soon have driver licenses, amnesty, citizenship, more welfare, free housing and free healthcare. All paid for by legal, working, U.S. taxpayers.
The dems are open borders people, they need sheeple to vote for them in order to stay in power. So they aren't going to stop, or even slow down the flow of illegals (sheeple) coming into this country.
Current figures are that there are approx. 30 million illegals in this country now. The dems are going to offer them a nice "free" lunch for their future votes.

I tend to agree Jose. That along with another tax to feed the world poor also imposed by Obama. We will be responsible for them all, even the ones who dont come.

Jose Como Va wrote:

<quoted text>
How you gonna stop Pelosi, Reid & Obama from doing anything they want, or, dont want to do? All three branches of gov. are now owned by democrats. You think they are going to take any of your views about border security into consideration? Think again.
Bet the illegals will soon have driver licenses, amnesty, citizenship, more welfare, free housing and free healthcare. All paid for by legal, working, U.S. taxpayers.
The dems are open borders people, they need sheeple to vote for them in order to stay in power. So they aren't going to stop, or even slow down the flow of illegals (sheeple) coming into this country.
Current figures are that there are approx. 30 million illegals in this country now. The dems are going to offer them a nice "free" lunch for their future votes.

And do you think they didnt want this last amnesty? What do you think they want more--illegals or next term votes?Illegals even if made legal wont be ready to vote in 4 years because the system used in registering new citizens is so far backloged it will take years to sign them all up.So when they push the amnesty agenda again, and the capitals phone system goes out again, who do you think they will listen to, people who cant vote yet or those who can?

plopsdad wrote:

<quoted text>6000, thats a typo i hope.

No typo.
I paid just shy of 6 thousand dollars last year for natural gas,to heat my house only.
This summer I had a complete overhaul,as I couldn't afford a new furnace,and was told it was 80% efficient.
Still unacceptable.

Sarcastic Bombastic wrote:

<quoted text>
Hi Tally! I'm glad to see you're keeping the debate going with wiser methods. You've made some fantastic points. I'll drop you an email later today! Take care... your adopted mom. ;-)

Hi adopted mom.

Well....its 2 am and here I am awake. I havent slept a minute and I have to get up at 5 am. Well as least jillian is sleeping peacefully. She looks so beautiful. She follows me everywhere. And she loves me so much....

Man charged in ramming death at bar

By Maria Panaritis
INQUIRER STAFF WRITER

Authorities filed murder charges today against a 35-year-old man, saying he exacted revenge against a takeout clerk who had escorted him out of a Bensalem bar last night by killing him in the parking lot a few minutes later with a pickup truck.

Jose Maldonado-Luzuriaga was sent to the Bucks County prison on homicide and related charges this morning after failing to post $3 million bail in the death of William Sullo III of Philadelphia, said First Assistant District Attorney David Zellis.

Maldonado-Luzuriaga had been drinking heavily before he set foot into Salute Restaurant Bar on Knights Road around 10:22 last night, authorities allege in investigative documents released today.

So bartenders refused to serve him and gave him a glass of water, officials said.

A short time later one of those bartenders, with help from Sullo, removed him from the premises because they had spotted him drinking beer that had been slipped to him by a fellow patron, authorities said.

Zellis said Maldonado-Luzuriaga, an illegal immigrant from Ecuador who lived up the road from the Salute bar, got into a white 2006 Ford F150, circled the lot a few times, aimed the pickup toward the front of the bar and gunned in anger toward Sullo, who stood on the curb watching.

Sullo, 30, of Philadelphia, died after being pinned against the exterior wall of the bar while the bartender-bouncer standing next to him, Carl Slaton, Jr., jumped out of harm's way just in time, authorities said.

Slaton was one of the two bartenders who originally refused to serve Maldonado-Luzuriaga. He also helped remove the man from the bar with Sullo's help, authorities said. Maldonado-Luzuriaga later told investigators that he had been angry with the two men, authorities said.

"Clearly, he was aiming the truck at both of them," Zellis said. "It's just by the grace of God that Mr. Slaton was able to get out of the way."

Zellis said Maldonado-Luzuriaga told investigators that he had been living in the United States as an illegal immigrant for five or six years but that little else was known about his background, work status or family.

He also told investigators he had drunk five Corona beers before the crash, authorities said.

After bar employees refused to serve him alcohol and their backs were turned on him, some fellow Hispanic patrons apparently gave him a drink, officials said.

A smattering of those patrons would later follow him out of the bar. They argued with him in the parking lot before he got into the truck, authorities said.

Zellis said that the job of informing federal authorities about the suspect's immigration status was being left to Bensalem police but that prosecutors would press forward with their case against Maldonado-Luzuriaga. A preliminary hearing should take place in the next 10 days, Zellis said.

"We will be in touch with the federal authorities," Zellis said, "but that's not going to deter us from fully prosecuting him according to the law."

Maldonado-Luzuriaga is charged with criminal homicide, attempted homicide, reckless endangerment and causing death while being an unlicensed driver.

Investigators said the truck did not belong to the suspect.

The Philadelphia Medical Examiner's Office was conducting an autopsy today on Sullo, who was pronounced dead at Frankford Hospital in Torresdale.

Contact Maria Panaritis mpanaritis@phillynews.com.

http://www.philly.com/philly/news/breaking/20...

plopsdad wrote:

<quoted text>And do you think they didnt want this last amnesty? What do you think they want more--illegals or next term votes?Illegals even if made legal wont be ready to vote in 4 years because the system used in registering new citizens is so far backloged it will take years to sign them all up.So when they push the amnesty agenda again, and the capitals phone system goes out again, who do you think they will listen to, people who cant vote yet or those who can?

Both!

Registering new voters?
A.C.O.R.N. will handle that in short order for the democrats. Ever hear of them?

The capital phone system?
With the Democrats holding all three branches of government hostage, a phone call is just not going to get it this time around.

The "Messiah" has spoken to the issue of "Comprehensive Immigration Reform. Read the article. The Senate and Congress will approve it.

I'm not against you. I'm not "for" amnesty etc.
Just being realistic as to what's on it's way via the progressive, socialist, liberals.

There are many good ideas on this thread about what "should" be done. I "agree" with most of those ideas. However, once again, wishful thinking and a phone call is not going to "change" the fact that there is going to be amnesty and many freebies given to the illegal aliens that are in this country.